<div dir="ltr">Dear Dr. Paul<div><br></div><div>Sorry for the silence. I must admit i am reading the list serve much less now that before. It is because at some point, i can also get overwhelmed by the discussions to the point of confusion. </div><div><br></div><div>AS you know i am actively promoting the use of pili shells (<i>canarium ovatum</i>) which is abundant in my region of Bicol here in the Philippines. The shell is very powerful and they are abundant and much cheaper. One latest client, who is a fried banana street food vendor attested that his expenses dropped from Php 75 daily for wood charcoal to Php 14 for pili shells. He is using my PP Brick stove that runs in TLUD mode as a cross draft gasifier and no smoke. </div><div><br></div><div>Another client, a commercial food business of cakes and pastries attested to a drop in fuel expense of Php 150 daily for wood charcoal to Php 48 for pili shells. She uses the bigger model of the PP Brick Stove which runs on pili shells in TLUD mode as a crossdraft gasifier and no smoke. </div><div><br></div><div>I hope this news helps for your advocacy. </div><div><br></div><div>Best regards</div><div><br></div><div>Jed </div><div><br></div><div> a short video clip is at </div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.facebook.com/pg/bahayteknik/videos/?ref=page_internal">https://www.facebook.com/pg/bahayteknik/videos/?ref=page_internal</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>and </div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.facebook.com/pg/bahayteknik/videos/?ref=page_internal">https://www.facebook.com/pg/bahayteknik/videos/?ref=page_internal</a></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><b><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Joshua B. Guinto<br></span></b><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Specialist, Appropriate Technology<br></span></div><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">MSc Management of AgroEcological Knowledge and Social Change (MAKS)<br></span></div><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Wageningen University, The Netherlands</span> <span style="font-family:garamond,serif">2006 to 2008</span><b><br></b></div><div><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Recipient, International Fellowships Programme Award (IFP) 2005<br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Ford Foundation </span><b><br></b></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-10-09 4:37 GMT-07:00 Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Paul and list</div><div><br></div><div><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Thank you for repeating your important message request below. See inserts below.</div><div><br></div><br><div><span class=""><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 8, 2017, at 9:25 AM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Stovers,<br>
<br>
Over a week ago I sent a message (attached as a Word document) with
this title and first paragraph:
<blockquote type="cite"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center" align="center"><b><span style="font-size:16.0pt;line-height:107%">Recognize Clean
Cooking with
Renewable Solid Fuels 2017-09-29</span></b></p>
<span><br>
We need to deliver <b>a
message to the
world</b> that any discussion of access to clean fuel sources
for cooking MUST
include recognition that renewable solid fuels (mainly wood /
pellet / chips,
but including some forms of agro-refuse) are also highly clean
burning in
modern advanced cookstoves. So, the topic is correctly stated
as
"clean cookstoves and fuels", but it is often reduced to be only
"clean fuels," which is very misleading. <br>
</span></blockquote>
Is this not one of the top five issues of this Stoves Listserv????<br></div></div></blockquote></span><div><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL1: yes - but what are your other four? Maybe this is also the most important of your five. I have a few other topics in [RWL13.</b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div><b><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I am ready to concede that there are cleaner fuels than solid biomass (electricity from solar is one example). The issue is one you have mentioned many times - the economics of cleaner options must come into play for those with a very limited income. TLUDs have properties that need to balanced against one type of health issue. Climate change is bringing a huge array of heath issues that should be in the dialog.</b></div><span class=""><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<br>
Well, the response has been totally UNDERwelming. TWO. Yes, a
total of 2 people sent comments directly to me (without wanting to
become involved) and ZERO comments on the Stoves Listserv.<br></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL2: Apologies for not saying more earlier.</b><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<br>
Does that tell us something about ourselves? Maybe:<br>
1. People do not read the Stoves List messages.<br></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL3: No- I know there are many more readers than responders.</b><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
2. My message content is not clear, or maybe too long, or maybe
something else.<br></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL4. No - you are doing an admirable job.</b><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
3. The topic is really not of interest to biomass Stovers.<br></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL5: No - Most on this list are here to promote improved biomass-based cook stoves. That is the stated purpose of the list (for more than 21 years.]</b><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
4. Biomass Stovers have given up and now accept biomass being
regarded as a “dirty fuel".<br></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL6: No - not “Biomass Stovers”. Certainly other types of “Stovers”. Those are not apt to have any interest in this or any biomass-oriented list.</b><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
5. Readers are in such total agreement with what I wrote that they
feel no need to comment.<br></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL7: Yes - a partial answer.</b><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
6. Something else: ________ fill in the blank _________________<br></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL8: We are all busy people - and it is sometimes downright unpleasant to respond (not to you). Obviously not your 7th suggestion . </b><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
7. All of the above.<br>
<br>
So, I am writing again. (Stupid Anderson, he will never learn.) <br>
<br>
I conclude with what is at the end of my document from last week:
<blockquote type="cite"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span>7. What
next???? <br>
a. Discussion will be at the Stoves Listserv. (If comments
are sent
directly to me at <a class="m_-1454820521824001154moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> , I might post them
with your name attached.)<br></span></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL9: I don’t see a better alternative than this list - but please keep summarizing at your website.</b><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><blockquote type="cite"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span>
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span>b. Who
will help carry this
message forward? Please speak up. Some assistance is
needed.<br></span></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL10: I see a great deal of help coming from the ISO process - which is linked considerably to GACC. I will keep trying to help - and can report I am nearing finishing something on the “denominator equation” - which is mislabeled. This has been a major hinderance to TLUD acceptance - with zero logic behind the objection.</b><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><blockquote type="cite"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span>
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span>c. To
whom should this message
be sent (as is or improved): One person is </span><a href="https://www.devex.com/news/authors/1253453" target="_blank"><span>Sophie Edwards</span></a><span> the journalist who wrote the </span><span>18 September 2017 item about
Rachel
Kyte.. And also send to Rachel Kyte.</span><span> </span></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL11. Ms Edwards seems an honest reporter - with a limited background (as for most reporters on almost any subject). I am not worried about Ms Kyte - based on what she has recommended as a funding increase for stoves.</b></div><div><b><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I suggest the attendees soon in Delhi are your best target right now.<br></b><span class=""><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><blockquote type="cite"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span> </span><span><br>
<br>
</span></p>
<span>d. Perhaps
a "Declaration
of Clean Cooking with Wood" could be prepared, and presented for
endorsement / adoption by organizations and persons. (Suggest a
better
name??)</span><br></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL12: Hmm. Maybe. I guess I see a need more for economic, social, and ethical analyses. Kirk Smith well recognizes the (climate and economic) down sides of LPG</b>;<b> he values one type of health issue higher (and we can be supportive of that) I guess we need multi-variable analysis more than declaration. But I am willing to participate on the analytical side of your declaration.</b></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><blockquote type="cite">
<span>e. Whatever is next, we need to
utilize
the format and facilities of the GACC, including the Forum in
Delhi. This
is what the GACC is all about:<span>
</span>With emphasis on the word CLEAN, we are all seeking to
have clean
cookstoves reaching even those people who only have biomass
fuels for daily
cooking. And this can be done with existing methods, etc., that
will
be further improved with the feedback from the woodgas stove
users.</span></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-1454820521824001154Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><b>[RWL13: Agreed with all. But more than the word “CLEAN” needs to be involved. If one can achieve a certain degree of cleanliness, then other parameters can/must come into play. Specifically I am thinking climate change, soil improvement, and increased rural income and health (improved nutrition). Stoves are not THE way to get these benefits from biochar. They could be the best early way - as cooks can make money rather than spend it. TLUDs are an investment opportunity and everyone prefers investments over expenses. And they suffer not at all on health, time-savings, costs, etc.</b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div><b>Ron</b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div><b><br></b><blockquote type="cite"><div><span class=""><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><blockquote type="cite"><span> <br>
</span></blockquote>
Paul<br>
<pre class="m_-1454820521824001154moz-signature" cols="72">--
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="m_-1454820521824001154moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:(309)%20452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a class="m_-1454820521824001154moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
</div>
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