<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Paul,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A difference with biomass stoves as compared with LPG and Coal stoves is that both LPG and Coal fuels are well tested and delivered knowing the quality and, also, how they are to be delivered to the combustion chamber. Such that anywhere they are used the results will be the same. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But biomass is still all over the map as to quality. You cannot say your stove burns clean. Because you do not say (and we have not provided you) the information that is needed for you to say that. Fill your stove with sawdust and how will that burn? or damp wood? If you can get your TLUD to burn clean and you specify the requirements for the fuel and the requirements for delivery of that fuel to the combustion chamber (packing in your case) then you can say it burns clean because it will burn clean every time and anyplace you take it. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The reason we can't provide you the info you need is because we have been misdirected time and time again. First the WBT and the poor method design. Then we have spent ten years arguing over the calculations. Then we find we need to calculate in the left over fuel that will be reused - even though we haven’t yet got the primary fuel requirements. Then we are cleaning air and not completing tasks. And now were wondering what to do next! </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">All we can say is “Our stoves burn clean too” (under the right conditions).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you take a tin can about the same size as your combustion chamber and pack it with wild biomass that you know works very well and send it to me I will run a package of tests. I am thinking these tests will be a good start for our testing program. I don’t have all the equipment I would like but have most. Then you can include the results of the fuel requirements and packing info needed to have a clean operation every time - like the LPG and Coal people. Of course this will be one point and best to have a range and that requires a lot of testing and a group working on it. Most likely University scale testing. You will still have the first wild biomass stove that can be said to burn clean. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 9, 2017, at 5:54 PM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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Nikhil, Ron, Crispin and others,<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/9/2017 12:20 PM, Nikhil Desai
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAK27e=n7ivsEy4DmtSNz5zppgGkL_Ws9DB9hEPHUdMP++0eEkw@mail.gmail.com" class="">
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<div dir="ltr" class="">Paul:
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think a "Declaration of Clean Cooking with Wood" is a
great idea. <span style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""> <br class="">
</span></div>
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</blockquote>
Change that to "Declaration of Clean Cooking with Woodgas" .
My goal is that the TLUD stoves with wood fuel are fairly recognized
as being worthy of being among the Modern Advanced Clean Cooking
Soluton (MACCS), as in the "Classification...." that is based on
GACC and ESMAP determinations. <br class="">
<br class="">
I am not inclined to do what you advocate in your next sentence:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAK27e=n7ivsEy4DmtSNz5zppgGkL_Ws9DB9hEPHUdMP++0eEkw@mail.gmail.com" class="">
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<div class=""><span style="font-size: 12.8px;" class="">A broader,
more emphatic claim needs to be made that improving
combustion of solid fuels is possible, has a long history,
just that adapting the principles to particular contexts
takes time and that there are many other possibilities for
biomass energy for small-scale thermal applications -
BESSTA?<br class="">
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Too many variables. Too many conflicting claims. Too many
reasons why direct burning of solids (in contrast to the TLUD
burning of GASES FROM SOLIDS) has not been fruitful.<br class="">
<br class="">
I do not try to knock any other biomass stoves (the "ICS" devices)
from being considered, but I cannnot bring along in some overly
broad declaration all of the ICS devices and their decades of
baggage. But we (the solid dry biomass fuels users) need to have
at least ONE that is accepted, to stop the blanket rejection of ALL
wood and other dry biomass fuel. And that one with the best
chances is the TLUD technology. <br class="">
<br class="">
In the end, what will count is when there are actual success stories
of major acceptance of TLUD (or some other biomass-fueled) stoves.
And that is happening NOW in West Bengal, and will be reported at
the GACC. Will anybody recognize such accomplishments? I do not
know. But a "Declaration....." can have many signatures, but it
would have minimal impact if the "leadership" continues to ignore
the solid results IN ACTUAL HOUSEHOLDS.<br class="">
<br class="">
In contrast to success in the field, results like a declaration ON
PAPER are easily ignored, just like any paper that declares Tier 4
results. <br class="">
<br class="">
I am busy with other preparations for the GACC Forum. I will
assist if someone else decides to make a "Declaration..."<br class="">
<br class="">
Paul<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAK27e=n7ivsEy4DmtSNz5zppgGkL_Ws9DB9hEPHUdMP++0eEkw@mail.gmail.com" class="">
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<div class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<br class="">
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</blockquote>
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Thanks</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank Shields</div><div class="">Gabilan Laboratory</div><div class="">Keith Day Company, Inc.</div><div class="">1091 Madison Lane</div><div class="">Salinas, CA 93907</div><div class="">(831) 246-0417 cell</div><div class="">(831) 771-0126 office</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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