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Frank,<br>
<br>
Thanks for that excellent comment. I / we must more carefully
"define" the biomass because there are so many types and formats.
For the side of caution, the most uniform and least controverial
fuel is wood pellets. Then comes wood chips/small chunks. And
some (sawdust) need to be excluded from TLUD fuels.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/10/2017 12:22 AM, Frank Shields
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:4FB2F152-D7BA-4FC1-A14E-6C12FA57CA26@cruzio.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Dear Paul,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">A difference with biomass stoves as compared with
LPG and Coal stoves is that both LPG and Coal fuels are well
tested and delivered knowing the quality and, also, how they are
to be delivered to the combustion chamber. Such that anywhere
they are used the results will be the same. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">But biomass is still all over the map as to quality.
You cannot say your stove burns clean. Because you do not say
(and we have not provided you) the information that is needed
for you to say that. Fill your stove with sawdust and how will
that burn? or damp wood? If you can get your TLUD to burn clean
and you specify the requirements for the fuel and the
requirements for delivery of that fuel to the combustion chamber
(packing in your case) then you can say it burns clean because
it will burn clean every time and anyplace you take it. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The reason we can't provide you the info you need is
because we have been misdirected time and time again. First the
WBT and the poor method design. Then we have spent ten years
arguing over the calculations. Then we find we need to calculate
in the left over fuel that will be reused - even though we
haven’t yet got the primary fuel requirements. Then we are
cleaning air and not completing tasks. And now were wondering
what to do next! </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">All we can say is “Our stoves burn clean too” (under
the right conditions).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If you take a tin can about the same size as your
combustion chamber and pack it with wild biomass that you know
works very well and send it to me I will run a package of tests.
I am thinking these tests will be a good start for our testing
program. I don’t have all the equipment I would like but have
most. Then you can include the results of the fuel requirements
and packing info needed to have a clean operation every time -
like the LPG and Coal people. Of course this will be one point
and best to have a range and that requires a lot of testing and
a group working on it. Most likely University scale testing. You
will still have the first wild biomass stove that can be said to
burn clean. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Frank</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 9, 2017, at 5:54 PM, Paul Anderson <<a
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Nikhil,
Ron, Crispin and others,<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/9/2017 12:20 PM,
Nikhil Desai wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK27e=n7ivsEy4DmtSNz5zppgGkL_Ws9DB9hEPHUdMP++0eEkw@mail.gmail.com"
class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Paul:
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think a "Declaration of Clean
Cooking with Wood" is a great idea. <span
style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""> <br
class="">
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Change that to "Declaration of Clean Cooking with
Woodgas" . My goal is that the TLUD stoves with wood
fuel are fairly recognized as being worthy of being
among the Modern Advanced Clean Cooking Soluton (MACCS),
as in the "Classification...." that is based on GACC and
ESMAP determinations. <br class="">
<br class="">
I am not inclined to do what you advocate in your next
sentence:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK27e=n7ivsEy4DmtSNz5zppgGkL_Ws9DB9hEPHUdMP++0eEkw@mail.gmail.com"
class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"
class="">A broader, more emphatic claim needs to
be made that improving combustion of solid fuels
is possible, has a long history, just that
adapting the principles to particular contexts
takes time and that there are many other
possibilities for biomass energy for small-scale
thermal applications - BESSTA?<br class="">
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Too many variables. Too many conflicting claims. Too
many reasons why direct burning of solids (in contrast
to the TLUD burning of GASES FROM SOLIDS) has not been
fruitful.<br class="">
<br class="">
I do not try to knock any other biomass stoves (the
"ICS" devices) from being considered, but I cannnot
bring along in some overly broad declaration all of the
ICS devices and their decades of baggage. But we (the
solid dry biomass fuels users) need to have at least ONE
that is accepted, to stop the blanket rejection of ALL
wood and other dry biomass fuel. And that one with the
best chances is the TLUD technology. <br class="">
<br class="">
In the end, what will count is when there are actual
success stories of major acceptance of TLUD (or some
other biomass-fueled) stoves. And that is happening
NOW in West Bengal, and will be reported at the GACC.
Will anybody recognize such accomplishments? I do not
know. But a "Declaration....." can have many
signatures, but it would have minimal impact if the
"leadership" continues to ignore the solid results IN
ACTUAL HOUSEHOLDS.<br class="">
<br class="">
In contrast to success in the field, results like a
declaration ON PAPER are easily ignored, just like any
paper that declares Tier 4 results. <br class="">
<br class="">
I am busy with other preparations for the GACC Forum.
I will assist if someone else decides to make a
"Declaration..."<br class="">
<br class="">
Paul<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK27e=n7ivsEy4DmtSNz5zppgGkL_Ws9DB9hEPHUdMP++0eEkw@mail.gmail.com"
class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<br class="">
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</blockquote>
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<div class="">Thanks</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Frank</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Frank Shields</div>
<div class="">Gabilan Laboratory</div>
<div class="">Keith Day Company, Inc.</div>
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