<div dir="ltr">Crispin:<br><br>Another thing - when you bring up LEMS hood, are you saying that Aprovecho uses LEMS and that Berkeley (UC? BAMG?) analyzed the equipment to conclude that it could not rate stoves beyond Tier 3.5 for some emissions? Or efficiency? <br><br>This may be significant since to my recollection, EPA did not bring in PM2.5 regulations for regulated entities until 1997. From what I remember of EPA approved laboratories for PM2.5 emissions for residential wood heaters - i.e., heating stoves - Aprovecho wasn't one of them. <br><br>Now, Aprovecho may not want to test for wood heating stoves in the US and nonetheless want to test and certify wood cookstoves for the developing world. What I am wondering is whether by setting Tier 4 for PM2.5 emissions as low as EPA did in IWA 2011:12, and lower than those for US NSPS for residential wood heaters, EPA was setting up the ISO exercise in such a way that no wood cookstove would be tested above 3.5 Tier. <br><br>Weirder things are known to happen with EPA. <br><br>To your knowledge, is this a protocol issue or an equipment issue, or both? Who certifies LEMS equipment and for what purpose? <br><br>I will check if the MIT D-Lab report mentioned PM2.5 Tiers and individual stove types' ratings. Could well be that between Lima Consensus and IWA and then TC-285 - some three years, or five years from when Gina McCarthy and Hillary Clinton first started talking about Jacob Moss' business plan for a cookstove entity outside the US government but under its influence - something happened that shifted GACC from "clean cookstoves" to "clean fuels". <br><br>I have a rough guess about what that "something" might be, but probably marginal to Aprovecho. I hope Dean can explain this LEMS and PM2.5 history. <br><br>Nikhil<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><span class="m_107008055030996186HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> <br></font></span><span><div><div class="m_107008055030996186m_1710853546513230805gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif"> <br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 5:17 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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Dear Xavier</div>
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The ISO is not a testing organisation and does not issue certificates. No one can issue an 'ISO Certificate' because they don't exist. </div>
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The ISO does not check the validity of certificates issued by anyone. Anyone can claim to be following any protocol they like. What is at issue is if the organisation is able to give trustworthy results. That's why labs get certified like UL etc so people believe
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I think Tom Miles can comment on how a lab gets certified for a <i>particular</i> test like an EPA stove test. </div>
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The only available facts are that there is a Draft ISO standard available (now, not before). The LEMS hood system (which some labs use) was analysed by Berkeley and said to be able to rate stoves as high as 'tier 3.5'. That study is now three years old.
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Regards </div><span class="m_107008055030996186m_1710853546513230805gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
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Crispin </div></font></span><div><div class="m_107008055030996186m_1710853546513230805gmail-h5">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello everyone,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am quite amazed that the Aprovecho is still claiming on its website to be able to deliver « ISO certificates » to clients who pay 3000 USD for a testing session.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://aprovecho.org/portfolio-item/stove-testing/" target="_blank">http://aprovecho.org/portfolio<wbr>-item/stove-testing/</a>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is there such thing as an ISO certificate when there exist no ISO standards for cookstoves?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">To me, there are only three explanations possible:</p>
<p class="m_107008055030996186m_1710853546513230805gmail-m_-5338037637166541155MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span>either the Aprovecho knows something we don’t</p>
<p class="m_107008055030996186m_1710853546513230805gmail-m_-5338037637166541155MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span>either it is a fraudulent claim</p>
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</span></span></span>either it is a big mistake</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I might be missing something, anyone can shed a light?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I put Dean Still in copy as well, Dean, maybe you can clarify that?</p>
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Best,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Xavier </p></div></div></div></div></div>
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