<div dir="ltr">Dear Paul,<div> I assume that you meant to use the TLUD technology when you mentioned using wood gas as cooking fuel. If you are thinking of producing the wood gas in one place and burning it in a stove kept some distance away, I must agree with Anil that it would be dangerous to use it in a closely confined and ill ventilated place.</div><div>Yours</div><div>A.D.Karve <br><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">***<br>Dr. A.D. Karve<br><br>Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br><br>Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 7:58 AM, nari phaltan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nariphaltan@gmail.com" target="_blank">nariphaltan@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Paul. We used producer gas for cooking in late 90s quite a lot for producing syrup from sweet sorghum. The details are at; <a href="http://www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf" target="_blank">www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.<wbr>pdf</a> together with photos.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Wood gas (producer gas) is a clean fuel but dangerous since it is a mixture of CO and H2. If not used with proper ventilation it can be lethal. In closed house environments it is not advisable to use it.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Anil</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_-3361190710047882504gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)<br>Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road<br>P.O.Box 44<br>Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India<br>Ph:+91-9168937964<br><a href="mailto:e-mail%3Anariphaltan@gmail.com" target="_blank">e-mail:nariphaltan@gmail.com</a><br> <a href="mailto:nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org" target="_blank">nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org</a><br><br><a href="http://www.nariphaltan.org" target="_blank">http://www.nariphaltan.org</a><br><br><a href="http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/" target="_blank">http://nariphaltan.org/about-<wbr>2/awards/</a> Awards for NARI staff<br><a href="http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/" target="_blank">http://nariphaltan.org/nari-<wbr>in-press/</a> NARI in press<br><br></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Crispin,<br>
Thanks for the good comments.<br>
<br>
Many details will be eventually ironed out. Much will depend on the response from the many many participants. You wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
This is Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps you need to create Big Wood and straighten both of them out.<br>
</blockquote>
Is there really much clash between Big Gas and Big Oil? Wood is already BIG, but not big in the organized way and it is being burned poorly. Maybe it should become Big Biomass (more encompassing) IN RELATION TO HOUSEHOLD ENERGY. The pellet-fuel companies would be part.<br>
<br>
The strength (and weakness) of Big Biomass (as fuel) is that it is so dispersed and is found almost everywhere.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br>
On 10/20/2017 9:51 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Dear Paul<br>
<br>
I appreciate that you are on the right track.<br>
<br>
I know it is not absolute in the same manner, but could you say, "Woodgas can be a clean fuel too"?<br>
<br>
I am concerned that you correct say in the beginning that no fuel is clean on its own, an opinion shared widely, because it depends on how you burn it.<br>
<br>
Then it says further down that woodgas is a clean fuel, without the qualification contained in the earlier statement.<br>
<br>
Would you be better off saying something that undermines the incorrect notion that 'there are clean fuels and dirty fuels' and reinforces what is true: that ways and means exist to burn fuels cleanly and they should be used.<br>
<br>
I am not all that happy with "Woodgas can be a clean fuel too" because without context it is basically bandwagonning behind a dead horse. Like the WBT low power metrics, it has to be dragged off to the glue factory.<br>
<br>
No fuel is inherently clean by all definitions. Not even woodgas. How far can you take on the problem of the misrepresentation of scientific truth, while still pointing out that woodgas can be created and burned very cleanly, by any definition?<br>
<br>
I guarantee that those intending to profit from the misrepresentation will not help you. This is Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps you need to create Big Wood and straighten both of them out.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Crispin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.b<wbr>ioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of Paul Anderson<br>
Sent: 19-Oct-17 22:16<br>
To: Doc Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [Stoves] Declaration about Woodgas<br>
<br>
Stovers, Charists, and all,<br>
<br>
I have prepared a "Declaration of Clean Cooking with Woodgas" for everyone's consideration. A copy of the version as of today's date<br>
2017-10-19 is attached, or you can get it at <a href="https://woodgas.com/declaration/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://woodgas.com/declaratio<wbr>n/</a> where any revisions will be available. Therefore, there is still time for your comments to be considered. This is now available several days before the start of the<br>
2017 GACC Forum in Delhi, which I will be attending and will hear some feedback about this "Woodgas Declaration."<br>
<br>
The bulk of the page has the justification statements: "Whereas ......." (10 of them.) And based on the truth of those statements, then comes the declarations:<br>
<br>
"now, therefore be it<br>
DECLARED ...... that:<br>
1. there are no "clean fuels" per se, but they can be “clean” (by definitions that are subject to discussion) only when properly combusted in appropriate, specialized combustion devices (burners and stoves), and fuels by themselves are neither clean nor dirty;<br>
<br>
2. woodgas is a clean fuel when appropriate micro-gasifiers with designated solid fuels are used by adequately-experienced cookstove users;<br>
<br>
3. woodgas has the potential to reach hundreds of millions of households to provide cleaner cooking while using smaller quantities of their current, locally-available fuel supplies, and all with sustainable financing, reduced expenditures, and even potential net profit;<br>
<br>
4. leaders, authorities and all parties interested in clean cookstoves should recognize in words, writings, actions and financial support that solid biomass can become a very clean-burning fuel for cooking in woodgas stoves for millions of households; and<br>
<br>
5. the expression “Woodgas is a Clean Fuel” is more than a motto, and it should be a guiding principle for prompt actions to assist at least one billion of the most underserved people on Earth, this being a most worthy goal that also has realistic prospects for being accomplished with honorable expedience. "<br>
<br>
Please participate in the discussions. I start my trip to India early on Saturday, so please discuss without expecting me to make replies promptly.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
--<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list<wbr>s.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg/</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list<wbr>s.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg/</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_<wbr>lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>