<div dir="ltr">Paul:<br><br>I think Rachel Kyte should be the first one to sign this. <div><br>Indeed, a "most worthy goal that also has realistic prospects for being accomplished with honorable expedience."<br><br>It will take a lot, and will have many pitfalls along the way. But on balance, it is less risky than leaving the poor to gas, electricity, and choice between fuel and food. Cooking technologies will not alleviate poverty as such, but people with access to "free" or low-cost solid biomass are more likely to appreciate the security of local fuels, in many contexts. <br><br>I hereby request to add my name to the list of signatories (or not; I leave you to judge if and when appropriate). <br><br>And hope to continue discussions . Light at the end doesn't mean the tunnel is short or that mines are not laid along the way. <br><br>Nikhil</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Nikhil Desai</font></div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(US +1) 202 568 5831</span><font face="georgia, serif"><br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Dear Anil and A.D.,<br>
<br>
Yes, I refer to the SMALL gasifiers (micro-gasifiers) that make
woodgas. There are many gases and variations of gases that can
come from wood and other biomass. The key is in the close-coupled
combustion (centimeters and seconds of time), meaning combustion
INSIDE the device where the pyrolytica woodgas is produced.<br>
<br>
I am in Delhi now. Pre-Forum tomorrow (Monday).<span class=""><br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="m_227193784064035572moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="m_227193784064035572moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:(309)%20452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a class="m_227193784064035572moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
</span><div><div class="h5"><div class="m_227193784064035572moz-cite-prefix">On 10/21/2017 5:51 AM, Anand Karve
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Paul,
<div> I assume that you meant to use the TLUD technology when
you mentioned using wood gas as cooking fuel. If you are
thinking of producing the wood gas in one place and burning it
in a stove kept some distance away, I must agree with Anil
that it would be dangerous to use it in a closely confined and
ill ventilated place.</div>
<div>Yours</div>
<div>A.D.Karve <br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="m_227193784064035572gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">***<br>
Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
<br>
Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br>
<br>
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural
Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 7:58 AM, nari
phaltan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nariphaltan@gmail.com" target="_blank">nariphaltan@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Paul.
We used producer gas for cooking in late 90s quite a lot
for producing syrup from sweet sorghum. The details are
at; <a href="http://www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf" target="_blank">www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pd<wbr>f</a>
together with photos.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Wood
gas (producer gas) is a clean fuel but dangerous since
it is a mixture of CO and H2. If not used with proper
ventilation it can be lethal. In closed house
environments it is not advisable to use it.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Anil</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="m_227193784064035572m_-3361190710047882504gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Nimbkar Agricultural
Research Institute (NARI)<br>
Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road<br>
P.O.Box 44<br>
Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India<br>
Ph:<a href="tel:+91%2091689%2037964" value="+919168937964" target="_blank">+91-9168937964</a><br>
<a href="mailto:e-mail%3Anariphaltan@gmail.com" target="_blank">e-mail:nariphaltan@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org" target="_blank">nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.nariphaltan.org" target="_blank">http://www.nariphaltan.org</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/" target="_blank">http://nariphaltan.org/about-2<wbr>/awards/</a>
Awards for NARI staff<br>
<a href="http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/" target="_blank">http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in<wbr>-press/</a>
NARI in press<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_227193784064035572h5">
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:36
PM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Crispin,<br>
Thanks for the good comments.<br>
<br>
Many details will be eventually ironed out. Much
will depend on the response from the many many
participants. You wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
This is Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps you
need to create Big Wood and straighten both of
them out.<br>
</blockquote>
Is there really much clash between Big Gas and Big
Oil? Wood is already BIG, but not big in the
organized way and it is being burned poorly.
Maybe it should become Big Biomass (more
encompassing) IN RELATION TO HOUSEHOLD ENERGY.
The pellet-fuel companies would be part.<br>
<br>
The strength (and weakness) of Big Biomass (as
fuel) is that it is so dispersed and is found
almost everywhere.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br>
On 10/20/2017 9:51 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Dear Paul<br>
<br>
I appreciate that you are on the right track.<br>
<br>
I know it is not absolute in the same manner,
but could you say, "Woodgas can be a clean fuel
too"?<br>
<br>
I am concerned that you correct say in the
beginning that no fuel is clean on its own, an
opinion shared widely, because it depends on how
you burn it.<br>
<br>
Then it says further down that woodgas is a
clean fuel, without the qualification contained
in the earlier statement.<br>
<br>
Would you be better off saying something that
undermines the incorrect notion that 'there are
clean fuels and dirty fuels' and reinforces what
is true: that ways and means exist to burn fuels
cleanly and they should be used.<br>
<br>
I am not all that happy with "Woodgas can be a
clean fuel too" because without context it is
basically bandwagonning behind a dead horse.
Like the WBT low power metrics, it has to be
dragged off to the glue factory.<br>
<br>
No fuel is inherently clean by all definitions.
Not even woodgas. How far can you take on the
problem of the misrepresentation of scientific
truth, while still pointing out that woodgas can
be created and burned very cleanly, by any
definition?<br>
<br>
I guarantee that those intending to profit from
the misrepresentation will not help you. This is
Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps you need to
create Big Wood and straighten both of them out.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Crispin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.b<wbr>ioenergylists.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Paul Anderson<br>
Sent: 19-Oct-17 22:16<br>
To: Doc Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [Stoves] Declaration about Woodgas<br>
<br>
Stovers, Charists, and all,<br>
<br>
I have prepared a "Declaration of Clean Cooking
with Woodgas" for everyone's consideration. A
copy of the version as of today's date<br>
2017-10-19 is attached, or you can get it at <a href="https://woodgas.com/declaration/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://woodgas.com/declaratio<wbr>n/</a>
where any revisions will be available.
Therefore, there is still time for your comments
to be considered. This is now available
several days before the start of the<br>
2017 GACC Forum in Delhi, which I will be
attending and will hear some feedback about this
"Woodgas Declaration."<br>
<br>
The bulk of the page has the justification
statements: "Whereas ......." (10 of them.)
And based on the truth of those statements, then
comes the declarations:<br>
<br>
"now, therefore be it<br>
DECLARED ...... that:<br>
1. there are no "clean fuels" per se, but they
can be “clean” (by definitions that are subject
to discussion) only when properly combusted in
appropriate, specialized combustion devices
(burners and stoves), and fuels by themselves
are neither clean nor dirty;<br>
<br>
2. woodgas is a clean fuel when appropriate
micro-gasifiers with designated solid fuels are
used by adequately-experienced cookstove users;<br>
<br>
3. woodgas has the potential to reach hundreds
of millions of households to provide cleaner
cooking while using smaller quantities of their
current, locally-available fuel supplies, and
all with sustainable financing, reduced
expenditures, and even potential net profit;<br>
<br>
4. leaders, authorities and all parties
interested in clean cookstoves should recognize
in words, writings, actions and financial
support that solid biomass can become a very
clean-burning fuel for cooking in woodgas stoves
for millions of households; and<br>
<br>
5. the expression “Woodgas is a Clean Fuel” is
more than a motto, and it should be a guiding
principle for prompt actions to assist at least
one billion of the most underserved people on
Earth, this being a most worthy goal that also
has realistic prospects for being accomplished
with honorable expedience. "<br>
<br>
Please participate in the discussions. I start
my trip to India early on Saturday, so please
discuss without expecting me to make replies
promptly.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
--<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br>
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