<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">PAUL, CC LIST AND NIKHIL:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I am handicapped as I write this - as I also am away from home. Please include me as a signee. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>But I feel you have left out several of the most important aspects of TLUDs. Foremost is that such stoves can earn (more than save) money for the users. Using the phrase “Terra Preta” can prove the out-year benefits of placing char in soil. And saving time while the stove is in operation. And being able to use leaves and very small biomass.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Your emphasizing the health benefits of TLUDs is very important- but we can also support solar cookers, which when combined with TLUDs (why should they not choose TLUDs as their needed backup?) would be the absolute cleanest of all fuel choices. And we can knock the negative carbon-climate-related health aspects of LPG (in a “whereas”).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 22, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Nikhil,<br class="">
<br class="">
I will tey to find Rachel Kyte. <br class="">
<br class="">
You are the secpnd person to officially add his/her name to the
Declaration, the first one being me because I wrote it. I am glad
to now use the plural that "we" declare.<br class="">
<br class="">
All should note that this is a Declaration by individutals and
entities that decide on their own to declare or not to declare.
This is not a Resolution that requires some vote. If the GACC
or others would want to make a resolution, that would be fine with
me. And I (correction, WE) will help with the wording. <br class="">
<br class="">
Paul<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/22/2017 2:34 PM, Nikhil Desai
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAK27e=kkkxVmOYanzseN2P3zL+7LTKKT-Ro_RT4gTKff-PaD_Q@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Paul:<br class="">
<br class="">
I think Rachel Kyte should be the first one to sign this.
<div class=""><br class="">
Indeed, a "most worthy goal that also has realistic prospects
for being accomplished with honorable expedience."<br class="">
<br class="">
It will take a lot, and will have many pitfalls along the way.
But on balance, it is less risky than leaving the poor to gas,
electricity, and choice between fuel and food. Cooking
technologies will not alleviate poverty as such, but people
with access to "free" or low-cost solid biomass are more
likely to appreciate the security of local fuels, in many
contexts. <br class="">
<br class="">
I hereby request to add my name to the list of signatories (or
not; I leave you to judge if and when appropriate). <br class="">
<br class="">
And hope to continue discussions . Light at the end doesn't
mean the tunnel is short or that mines are not laid along the
way. <br class="">
<br class="">
Nikhil</div>
</div>
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<div class=""><font face="georgia,
serif" class="">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">
Nikhil Desai</font></div>
<div class=""><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small" class="">(US
+1) 202 568
5831</span><font face="georgia,
serif" class=""><br class="">
<i class="">Skype:
nikhildesai888</i><br class="">
</font><br class="">
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<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Paul
Anderson <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Dear Anil and A.D.,<br class="">
<br class="">
Yes, I refer to the SMALL gasifiers (micro-gasifiers) that
make woodgas. There are many gases and variations of
gases that can come from wood and other biomass. The key
is in the close-coupled combustion (centimeters and
seconds of time), meaning combustion INSIDE the device
where the pyrolytica woodgas is produced.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am in Delhi now. Pre-Forum tomorrow (Monday).<span class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
Paul<br class="">
<pre class="m_227193784064035572moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="m_227193784064035572moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a class="m_227193784064035572moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
</span>
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="m_227193784064035572moz-cite-prefix">On
10/21/2017 5:51 AM, Anand Karve wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Dear Paul,
<div class=""> I assume that you meant to use the TLUD
technology when you mentioned using wood gas as
cooking fuel. If you are thinking of producing
the wood gas in one place and burning it in a
stove kept some distance away, I must agree with
Anil that it would be dangerous to use it in a
closely confined and ill ventilated place.</div>
<div class="">Yours</div>
<div class="">A.D.Karve <br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="m_227193784064035572gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">***<br class="">
Dr. A.D. Karve<br class="">
<br class="">
Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br class="">
<br class="">
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate
Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at
7:58 AM, nari phaltan <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:nariphaltan@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">nariphaltan@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Paul.
We used producer gas for cooking in late
90s quite a lot for producing syrup from
sweet sorghum. The details are at; <a href="http://www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pd<wbr class="">f</a>
together with photos.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Wood
gas (producer gas) is a clean fuel but
dangerous since it is a mixture of CO and
H2. If not used with proper ventilation it
can be lethal. In closed house
environments it is not advisable to use
it.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Anil</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="m_227193784064035572m_-3361190710047882504gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Nimbkar
Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)<br class="">
Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road<br class="">
P.O.Box 44<br class="">
Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India<br class="">
Ph:<a href="tel:+91%2091689%2037964" value="+919168937964" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">+91-9168937964</a><br class="">
<a href="mailto:e-mail%3Anariphaltan@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">e-mail:nariphaltan@gmail.com</a><br class="">
<a href="mailto:nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<a href="http://www.nariphaltan.org/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://www.nariphaltan.org</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<a href="http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://nariphaltan.org/about-2<wbr class="">/awards/</a>
Awards for NARI staff<br class="">
<a href="http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in<wbr class="">-press/</a>
NARI in press<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="m_227193784064035572h5"> <br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 20,
2017 at 9:36 PM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Crispin,<br class="">
Thanks for the good comments.<br class="">
<br class="">
Many details will be eventually
ironed out. Much will depend on the
response from the many many
participants. You wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> This is
Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps
you need to create Big Wood and
straighten both of them out.<br class="">
</blockquote>
Is there really much clash between
Big Gas and Big Oil? Wood is
already BIG, but not big in the
organized way and it is being burned
poorly. Maybe it should become Big
Biomass (more encompassing) IN
RELATION TO HOUSEHOLD ENERGY. The
pellet-fuel companies would be part.<br class="">
<br class="">
The strength (and weakness) of Big
Biomass (as fuel) is that it is so
dispersed and is found almost
everywhere.<br class="">
<br class="">
Paul<br class="">
<br class="">
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S.
Anderson, PhD<br class="">
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br class="">
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">+1-309-452-7072</a><br class="">
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">www.drtlud.com</a><br class="">
<br class="">
On 10/20/2017 9:51 AM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> Dear Paul<br class="">
<br class="">
I appreciate that you are on the
right track.<br class="">
<br class="">
I know it is not absolute in the
same manner, but could you say,
"Woodgas can be a clean fuel too"?<br class="">
<br class="">
I am concerned that you correct
say in the beginning that no fuel
is clean on its own, an opinion
shared widely, because it depends
on how you burn it.<br class="">
<br class="">
Then it says further down that
woodgas is a clean fuel, without
the qualification contained in the
earlier statement.<br class="">
<br class="">
Would you be better off saying
something that undermines the
incorrect notion that 'there are
clean fuels and dirty fuels' and
reinforces what is true: that ways
and means exist to burn fuels
cleanly and they should be used.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am not all that happy with
"Woodgas can be a clean fuel too"
because without context it is
basically bandwagonning behind a
dead horse. Like the WBT low power
metrics, it has to be dragged off
to the glue factory.<br class="">
<br class="">
No fuel is inherently clean by all
definitions. Not even woodgas. How
far can you take on the problem of
the misrepresentation of
scientific truth, while still
pointing out that woodgas can be
created and burned very cleanly,
by any definition?<br class="">
<br class="">
I guarantee that those intending
to profit from the
misrepresentation will not help
you. This is Big Gas against Big
Oil. Perhaps you need to create
Big Wood and straighten both of
them out.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards<br class="">
Crispin<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
-----Original Message-----<br class="">
From: Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">stoves-bounces@lists.b<wbr class="">ioenergylists.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Paul Anderson<br class="">
Sent: 19-Oct-17 22:16<br class="">
To: Doc Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br class="">
Subject: [Stoves] Declaration
about Woodgas<br class="">
<br class="">
Stovers, Charists, and all,<br class="">
<br class="">
I have prepared a "Declaration of
Clean Cooking with Woodgas" for
everyone's consideration. A copy
of the version as of today's date<br class="">
2017-10-19 is attached, or you can
get it at <a href="https://woodgas.com/declaration/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://woodgas.com/declaratio<wbr class="">n/</a>
where any revisions will be
available. Therefore, there is
still time for your comments to be
considered. This is now
available several days before the
start of the<br class="">
2017 GACC Forum in Delhi, which I
will be attending and will hear
some feedback about this "Woodgas
Declaration."<br class="">
<br class="">
The bulk of the page has the
justification statements:
"Whereas ......." (10 of them.)
And based on the truth of those
statements, then comes the
declarations:<br class="">
<br class="">
"now, therefore be it<br class="">
DECLARED ...... that:<br class="">
1. there are no "clean fuels" per
se, but they can be “clean” (by
definitions that are subject to
discussion) only when properly
combusted in appropriate,
specialized combustion devices
(burners and stoves), and fuels by
themselves are neither clean nor
dirty;<br class="">
<br class="">
2. woodgas is a clean fuel when
appropriate micro-gasifiers with
designated solid fuels are used by
adequately-experienced cookstove
users;<br class="">
<br class="">
3. woodgas has the potential to
reach hundreds of millions of
households to provide cleaner
cooking while using smaller
quantities of their current,
locally-available fuel supplies,
and all with sustainable
financing, reduced expenditures,
and even potential net profit;<br class="">
<br class="">
4. leaders, authorities and all
parties interested in clean
cookstoves should recognize in
words, writings, actions and
financial support that solid
biomass can become a very
clean-burning fuel for cooking in
woodgas stoves for millions of
households; and<br class="">
<br class="">
5. the expression “Woodgas is a
Clean Fuel” is more than a motto,
and it should be a guiding
principle for prompt actions to
assist at least one billion of the
most underserved people on Earth,
this being a most worthy goal that
also has realistic prospects for
being accomplished with honorable
expedience. "<br class="">
<br class="">
Please participate in the
discussions. I start my trip to
India early on Saturday, so please
discuss without expecting me to
make replies promptly.<br class="">
<br class="">
Paul<br class="">
<br class="">
--<br class="">
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S.
Anderson, PhD<br class="">
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br class="">
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">+1-309-452-7072</a><br class="">
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">www.drtlud.com</a><br class="">
<br class="">
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