<div dir="ltr">Ron: <br><br>Somehow this fell through the cracks and I failed to read until now. <br><br>If you think biomass fuel producers ought to be sued like the Big Tobacco, please be my guest. <br><br>I have no problem accepting the claim that there are health risks from excessive smoke, food, alcohol, dope, or even intellectual diet of only peer-blessed journals. I only dispute precise quantification and, in particular, WHO HFC Guidelines, the Tier 4 PM2.5 hourly average emission rates, or even PM2.5 equitoxicity. <br><br>Nikhil<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif"> <br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Nikhil: </div><div><br></div><div><span class="m_-2828498267095127848Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>You are obviously putting a lot of time into this WHO-HAP “abuse of science” topic (From below: “<i>In the WHO claims on HAP, there is a mental violence done by abuse of science.</i> ) But you come to a different conclusion than virtually every other analyst.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="m_-2828498267095127848Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I fail to see ANY difference between your views and the many cigarette company officials disclaiming for decades any scientific proof on health issues related to cigarette smoking.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="m_-2828498267095127848Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>What is the difference between their obvious lies and your (negative) claims of “mental violence” - both on smoke? How could the tobacco companies conclude that there are indeed serious health hazards from cigarette smoke twenty years (and more) ago - but you can’t in 2017?</div><div><br></div><div><span class="m_-2828498267095127848Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Cites: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/26/weekinreview/the-nation-big-tobacco-grew-long-noses-but-it-s-not-a-crime.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/1999/<wbr>09/26/weekinreview/the-nation-<wbr>big-tobacco-grew-long-noses-<wbr>but-it-s-not-a-crime.html</a></div><div><span class="m_-2828498267095127848Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="http://www.jeffreywigand.com/7ceos.php" target="_blank">http://www.jeffreywigand.com/<wbr>7ceos.php</a></div><div><span class="m_-2828498267095127848Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="http://www.who.int/tobacco/media/en/TobaccoExplained.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.who.int/tobacco/<wbr>media/en/TobaccoExplained.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5"><div>On Oct 14, 2017, at 12:09 AM, Nikhil Desai <<a href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-2828498267095127848Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><div><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr">Crispin: <br><br>Just a coincidence that your post reminded me of a case connecting workplace sexual harassment of young women and cookstove emissions. <br><br>Why of course, I am thinking of the economist R. K. Pachauri, formerly of Teri, The Energy Research Institute in New Delhi and of the IPCC. It was via Teri that the first formal study of Indian indoor air pollution from solid fuel cookstoves began, in early 1983. Clean Cooking Forum 2017 is being held not too far from where it all started then. <br><br>Thinking of your grotesque analogy, I guess physical violence leads to long-term trauma for the survivors, a mental health issue. A co-damage if you will. <br><br>In the WHO claims on HAP, there is a mental violence done by abuse of science. <br><br>In each case, what happens behind the doors is kept unspoken. That is a societal cost of putting up with conceit and deceit of the violators. <br><br>Please let us know which document of WHO says that HAP "kills". I will post two very short WHO statements (3-4 pages each) on HAP BOD methods and results, and also quote from a Kirk Smith paper about how the GBD attributable deaths rose in numbers. (I quoted from GBD 2016 that HAP attributable deaths have now gone down from 2000 to 2016). <br><br>On claims like "kills" or the 2014 WHO document on HFC "guidelines" interfering with stove performance metrics and protocols, you could request your national government to take the matter to WHO Director General to complain that WHO has exceeded its remit and it has issued misleading public health statements. <br><br>Nikhil <br><br>PS: There is a WSJ front page story about a startup making false claims - <a href="https://www.wsj.com/articles/outcome-a-hot-tech-startup-misled-advertisers-with-manipulated-information-sources-say-1507834627" target="_blank">Outcome, a Hot Tech Startup, Misled Advertisers With Manipulated Information, Sources Say</a> Rolfe Winkler 13 October 2017. Arguendo, the technology was aimed to "nudge" (term from the new Nobel economist Richard Thaler) patients waiting in doctors' offices to a the drug that pharma companies paid Outcome to market via televisions in selected doctors' offices. I wonder if Outcome should have instead sold aDALYs from nudging. <br><br><br><br><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>