<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Thanks Frank. Durability testing goes back to the days of feed pellets. Good to know you can do that test. <div><br></div><div>In the Chinese case the kilns only need a density greater than 15lb/ft3 or 240 kg/m3 which is pretty easy. The pellets I saw were probably about 25 lb/ft3 or 400 kg/m3. They held together pretty well. </div><div><br></div><div>Tom<br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature">T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "></span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com">tmiles@trmiles.com</a></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.226562); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.226562);">Sent from mobile. </span></div></div></div><div><br>On Nov 22, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Frank Shields <<a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p><font size="+1">Lots of good news - Tom,</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I am wondering if the testing procedures for the
quality program the Pellet Inst. uses could be used here to help
make adjustments in formulation and state pellet qualities would
be helpful. Their standards may not need be met but just to
provide numbers to constituents of importance. I built a tumbler
for the durability test at the old lab. I might also suggest
additional tests beyond what the Pellet Inst. list due to the
much more variable biomass used in your projects. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Regards</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Frank</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Gabilan laboratory</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://pellet.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/understanding%20the%20quality%20mark.pdf">https://pellet.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/understanding%20the%20quality%20mark.pdf</a></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/22/17 3:10 PM, Tom Miles wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks. The pellets they have selected for
carbonizing are 8-12 mm. We have done a lot of densification
and we understand the issues related to densifying crop
residues. We’ll see how long the dies last. The pellets I saw
had corn stover blended in with the rice straw. The corn
stalks could act as a binder and lubricant. If I recall the
intended working radius for each pellet plant is about 50 km.
Delivered cost of the pellets to the biochar plant is
USD$70/ton.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It’s interesting to learn about the Hebei
project. The handling and processing infrastructure for one
project should help another. Some successful biochar producers
are supplying different fiber and char products to different
markets. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose" moz-do-not-send="true"><o:p> </o:p></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Stoves
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 22, 2017 1:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Biochar' <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"><biochar@yahoogroups.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Air pollution in cities<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Thanks Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">I know my posts don’t go
to the biochar list so you can post it on if it is relevant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">The pelleting of
agriwastes is mechanically difficult because of the ash in
the material and contamination from dirt. The trend is to
make relatively large pellets that are square in
cross-section. The energy input is really high even at low
density so the ‘moving parts’ are difficult to keep
together. The subsidy <i>was</i> about $50 per ton and the
limitation of the system is that the transport radius is
defined by the subsidy, if you boil it down. It is something
like 150 km. When the distribution radius is small, the
factories can’t be too large.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Perhaps a dual approach
would yield the best overall system performance when
agriwastes are digested before being pelleted. Who tries,
wins.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">The Hebei Clean Air
Project ($500m) is implementing 51 measures with a large
($80m) component of improved stoves. I have yet to see a
really improved ‘wood briquette’ stove, only coal stoves.
Some basic research is needed to fill that gap.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">At least some of the
H-CAP items attempt to ‘do something’ with the agriwastes
from fields because it is a major contributor to poor air
quality in Beijing in October. The smoke is similar in
content and concentration to the illegal Indonesian peat
burning to create biodiesel plantations that affects
Singapore air. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">At this time, it seems
likely that some form of crossdraft stove, perhaps similar
to the Fyro-stove layout, will be able to burn these large
‘pellets’ (briquettes). The heat applied to the pyrolysation
has to be greatly reduced compared with the successful coal
gasifiers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your comments. The agricultural
science that we have seen is done at a high level. It is also
done in collaboration with expert institutions around the
world. In just our limited view we are interacting with a
large department of soil and crop scientists at a “key
university” for biochar. They are collaborating with some
large corporations. They have really been innovative compared
to how others around the world are thinking about the
conversion and use of biochar. The people we are working with
have been at it for at least 10 years, so it hasn’t happened
overnight.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The business model is unique and there
clearly are subsidies. There are multiple objectives, but a
main driver is to reduce the open field burning. Improving
soil health, reducing effects of pollution, increasing yield
and sequestering carbon are other targets. There are many
local challenges to deal with, like arsenic and cadmium.
National, county, and local governments are involved
organizing supporting policy and funding businesses. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">They are moving very quickly to scale. The
scale is not surprising. You can get to the current stated
capacities with only 25 plants each processing 30,000 tons of
residue per year at about 4 tons per hour. They have
engineered one processing scheme and have cloned it. Meanwhile
they are working on incremental improvements. Whether each
plant is actually producing 8,000 hours per year may be
debatable but that’s also true of our small North American
biomass plants. Field testing in300 locations is impressive.
There is a whole educational program at each level. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I haven’t seen their pelleting operations,
but I have seen other stationary systems with Chinese
equipment and know their typical limitations. The pellets are
not very dense which should offset some of the wear issues
associated with crop residues. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is still evolving. It will be
interesting to see where they are in a year’s time. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tom <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Frank Shields
444 Main Street Apt. 4205
Watsonville, CA 95076
(831) 246-0417 cell
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</a></pre>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><franke.vcf></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Stoves mailing list</span><br><span></span><br><span>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br><span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br><span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br><span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>