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<p><font size="+1">Dear Crispin, Stovers,<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">My real interest is testing the characteristics
of biomass regarding use as a fuel. I believe there are others
with more expertise and equipment to study this. I am not
surprised the oxygen level may drop in closed environment but am
surprised that CO is the concern. Methane and CO2 must also be
released(?). <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I only mention the 'durability' setup to Tom
because it is easily constructed. Anyone can set up a good
pellet lab in their backyard. In addition to what the pellet
industry require on their very controlled feedstock I suggest
adding 1) solvent solubles and 2) particle density. That because
our pellets made from a variety of biomass and used in TLUD
(packed in cylinders) different than how a modern pellet stove
receives pellets. Using resins, gums, oils etc as binding agents
I believe will effect combustion and would be good to know
(solvent extraction). Also; Tom mentioned the bulk density
results but if particle density was included we would know the
void space between particles used for moving air. And knowing
percentage of carbon we would know the total carbon in the
cylinder and the carbon density of the particle. All I think
important reported as a range for each type of stove. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">So good luck on your CO release from piled
pellets. Really - CO?</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Regards</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Frank<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"> <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"> </font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/23/17 7:47 AM, Ronal W. Larson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:FDBF3013-7A24-4303-89C5-C1B10C6D2982@comcast.net">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div class="">Crispin, cc list</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>Can you give a
cite for the Hopke article.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>I doubt that
this will be desired for any pyrolysis approach.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ron</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Nov 22, 2017, at 8:45 PM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott <<a
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Dear Frank</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Now that you are back in the lab, I would
really appreciate it if you can work out how to make or
treat pellets so they don't produce CO. Phil Hopke
published his analysis of the problem and how to solve it.
He announced it about a year ago and now it is published.
Good for everyone. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">But as a practical measure it needs proof of
concept in multiple ways. You might be able to advise us
in practical ways how to prevent it. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">What do you think? Interesting?</div>
<div class=""><span class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="">Regards </span></div>
<div class=""><span class="">Crispin </span></div>
<div class=""><span class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<p class="">Lots of good news - Tom,</p>
<p class="">I am wondering if the testing procedures for
the quality program the Pellet Inst. uses could be used
here to help make adjustments in formulation and state
pellet qualities would be helpful. Their standards may
not need be met but just to provide numbers to
constituents of importance. I built a tumbler for the
durability test at the old lab. I might also suggest
additional tests beyond what the Pellet Inst. list due
to the much more variable biomass used in your
projects. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="">Regards</p>
<p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<p class="">Frank</p>
<p class="">Gabilan laboratory</p>
<p class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpellet.memberclicks.net%2Fassets%2Fdocs%2Funderstanding%2520the%2520quality%2520mark.pdf&data=02%7C01%7Ccrispinpigott%40outlook.com%7C238581a1025c46b8ab5108d53209dd6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636469940300218889&sdata=OsGykriaBQy8dYlUKEiwUqiu%2BqqDGpHPFAE2KgFDn9I%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://pellet.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/understanding%20the%20quality%20mark.pdf</a><br
class="">
</p>
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/22/17 3:10 PM, Tom
Miles wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div class="">Crispin,</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">Thanks. The pellets they have selected
for carbonizing are 8-12 mm. We have done a lot of
densification and we understand the issues related
to densifying crop residues. We’ll see how long the
dies last. The pellets I saw had corn stover blended
in with the rice straw. The corn stalks could act as
a binder and lubricant. If I recall the intended
working radius for each pellet plant is about 50 km.
Delivered cost of the pellets to the biochar plant
is USD$70/ton.</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">It’s interesting to learn about the
Hebei project. The handling and processing
infrastructure for one project should help another.
Some successful biochar producers are supplying
different fiber and char products to different
markets.</div>
<div class=""><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"> </a></div>
<div class=""><span class="">Tom</span></div>
<span class=""></span>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><b class="">From:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday,
November 22, 2017 1:01 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Biochar'<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><biochar@yahoogroups.com></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[Stoves] Air pollution in cities</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">Thanks Tom</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">I know my
posts don’t go to the biochar list so you can post
it on if it is relevant.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">The
pelleting of agriwastes is mechanically difficult
because of the ash in the material and
contamination from dirt. The trend is to make
relatively large pellets that are square in
cross-section. The energy input is really high
even at low density so the ‘moving parts’ are
difficult to keep together. The subsidy<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">was</i><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>about $50
per ton and the limitation of the system is that
the transport radius is defined by the subsidy, if
you boil it down. It is something like 150 km.
When the distribution radius is small, the
factories can’t be too large.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">Perhaps a
dual approach would yield the best overall system
performance when agriwastes are digested before
being pelleted. Who tries, wins.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">The Hebei
Clean Air Project ($500m) is implementing 51
measures with a large ($80m) component of improved
stoves. I have yet to see a really improved ‘wood
briquette’ stove, only coal stoves. Some basic
research is needed to fill that gap.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">At least
some of the H-CAP items attempt to ‘do something’
with the agriwastes from fields because it is a
major contributor to poor air quality in Beijing
in October. The smoke is similar in content and
concentration to the illegal Indonesian peat
burning to create biodiesel plantations that
affects Singapore air.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">At this
time, it seems likely that some form of crossdraft
stove, perhaps similar to the Fyro-stove layout,
will be able to burn these large ‘pellets’
(briquettes). The heat applied to the pyrolysation
has to be greatly reduced compared with the
successful coal gasifiers.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">Regards</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">Crispin</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div class="">Crispin,</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">Thanks for your comments. The
agricultural science that we have seen is done at a
high level. It is also done in collaboration with
expert institutions around the world. In just our
limited view we are interacting with a large
department of soil and crop scientists at a “key
university” for biochar. They are collaborating with
some large corporations. They have really been
innovative compared to how others around the world
are thinking about the conversion and use of
biochar. The people we are working with have been at
it for at least 10 years, so it hasn’t happened
overnight.</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">The business model is unique and there
clearly are subsidies. There are multiple
objectives, but a main driver is to reduce the open
field burning. Improving soil health, reducing
effects of pollution, increasing yield and
sequestering carbon are other targets. There are
many local challenges to deal with, like arsenic and
cadmium. National, county, and local governments
are involved organizing supporting policy and
funding businesses.</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">They are moving very quickly to scale.
The scale is not surprising. You can get to the
current stated capacities with only 25 plants each
processing 30,000 tons of residue per year at about
4 tons per hour. They have engineered one processing
scheme and have cloned it. Meanwhile they are
working on incremental improvements. Whether each
plant is actually producing 8,000 hours per year may
be debatable but that’s also true of our small North
American biomass plants. Field testing in300
locations is impressive. There is a whole
educational program at each level.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">I haven’t seen their pelleting
operations, but I have seen other stationary systems
with Chinese equipment and know their typical
limitations. The pellets are not very dense which
should offset some of the wear issues associated
with crop residues.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">This is still evolving. It will be
interesting to see where they are in a year’s time.</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">Tom </div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<br class="">
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<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Frank Shields
444 Main Street Apt. 4205
Watsonville, CA 95076
(831) 246-0417 cell
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" moz-do-not-send="true">franke@cruzio.com</a></pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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