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Cheng, see below<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/2/2017 7:48 PM, lh cheng wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAK2R_Nd5EU8wj+hDtcdrz5=T-77vfKSN8CM=5XvGFAXHTGB87w@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>TLUD stove is efficient but fragile. this fragile concept
comes from a book "Antifragile", written by Nassim Nicholas
Taleb, like Dr Anderson, he is a Doctor and professor. He have
a good understanding of man-made artificial system, have deep
insight of the weakness of some man-made system, and he find a
good way to make money (of no small amount ) through it from
financial market. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Fragile thing like Titanic ship, is high efficient,
beautiful, but there were big risks, which cannot be avoided
anyway, underneath the surface, when something wrong happened
eventually, inevitably, no one can afford it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I criticize TLUD stove here, not in malice, but try to make
something clear, maybe we can find out the hindrance of its
popularity, find a direction to improve it, and help the user
to use it in a safer way.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>TLUD stove separates gas combustion from gasification, and
is batch-feed, this combination create efficiency
and convenience, but also big risk. many thing can cause the
fire ( gas combustion ) go out, too much or too little gas,
too much or too little air, temperature too low, (too much or
too little prmary air, cause too much or too little gas, both
can lead to extinguish of the secondary combustion), too much
moisture in the fuel. once the fire go out, great smoke jet
out like crazy, poisonous, and the fuel is burning inside the
inner cylinder like crazy, no easy way to put out the first
combustion. it is very dangerous and bad situation for
housewife, neighbors scared by the big smoke, people even can
got killed by the poisonous gas. (when water can't low down
the charcoal temperature, water H2O can be turned into
poisonous CO gas immediately).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The paragraph above does not express the reality of 40,000 TLUD
stove users living closely together in We s Bengal, India. the
concerns you raise can be presented in "theory", but that is ot the
reality. You are writing line the TLUD "deniers" of 5 to 12 years
ago. I heard that over and over. It is in the big New Yorker
magazine articles. Those people are not saying such things any
more, at least not publically or where their comments could leak
back to me. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK2R_Nd5EU8wj+hDtcdrz5=T-77vfKSN8CM=5XvGFAXHTGB87w@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>Traditional stove have no such thing, because it is not
batch-feeding, not burning in a tight closed space. and safer
in unexpected situation. it is robust. that's why people
prefer it over TLUD stove maybe.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have no clear idea yet, I just typed this message, not
thinking it thoroughly.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I accept your statement that you are basically not yet well informed
or with much experience. Stick with the TLUD stoves. They are
the wave of the future. They can become better, and that is where
you and others will eventually make important contributions. --
And there will be many who will sit on the sidelines. ---
Progress in the past few years has been great, and getting better
all the time. <br>
<br>
I'll sign this message to show my full bias. <br>
<br>
Dr TLUD<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK2R_Nd5EU8wj+hDtcdrz5=T-77vfKSN8CM=5XvGFAXHTGB87w@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>best regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-02 7:50 GMT+08:00 Nikhil
Desai <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
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<div><font
face="georgia,
serif">Paul: <br>
<br>
Capital cost
of the stove
is a minor
issue; the
question is
whether the
users like and
use the stove.
This is why
contextual
definitions
matter,
because pellet
production
costs can vary
greatly
depending on
the
feedstock. <br>
<br>
A high capital
cost stove can
be given
one-time
subsidy -
should be
given to the
distributor if
one exists;
could be given
to a bulk
producer - on
the condition
that the
stoves are
found useful
and used.
Metrics of
efficiency and
hourly
emission rates
are just
smoke. <br>
<br>
I am glad to
read "</font>it
is something
about family,
a cultural
thing,
especially in
country
side." <font
face="georgia,
serif">Gives
the lie to
physics-only
theories of
supposed
"stove
science". <span
class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Nikhil<br>
</font></span></font><br>
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<span class="gmail-">
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at
10:05 AM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Cheng and all, (and a
mention of Todd Albi). see below.<br>
<pre class="gmail-m_-5662447623776830519gmail-m_-1066852585149645021moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="gmail-m_-5662447623776830519gmail-m_-1066852585149645021moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a class="gmail-m_-5662447623776830519gmail-m_-1066852585149645021moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div
class="gmail-m_-5662447623776830519gmail-m_-1066852585149645021moz-cite-prefix">On
11/29/2017 10:15 PM, lh cheng wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Another Chinese little project.
Surely, it is cookstove, not heater. Too
expensive, 1500RMB (230 USD), in rural
area, a big number, very big, no one
buy, not even one, in rural area. For
user, many uncertainties to use new type
of stove. if free of charge, a
trustworthy friend who is an expert
about this stove, that might be fine.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I was wondering about the price of that pellet
burner stove. Yes, it is expensive, but
expensive is a relative term. It could be
imported into America where $230 is
inexpensive, but the price here would be so
much higher and it would then be expensive
here. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div><br>
</div>
<div>stove thing should be open-source (
just like Dr Anderson's Champion Stove
), DIY, or made by acquaintance, it is
something about family, a cultural
thing, especially in country side. In
city, electricity or LPG is enough.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Is there any prospect in China for DIY. And
what would be the acceptance of a stove made
with thin metal? Generalizing, it seems that
heavy construction of stoves is the standard
in China. Todd Albi might be able to shed
some light on this.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>a good approach for stove design
maybe is that, basic knowledge of stove
design spread among people, and people
help each other.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
What do you have in mind? in the context of
China? I have difficulty imagining stove
design work in China outside of the factory
context.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>concerning "stove intervention",
during 1959-1961 in China, more than 30
millions of people died because a stove
intervention movement. and people have
memories.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Please provide more information about this
statement about 30 million deaths.<br>
<br>
Welcome to the world of the Stoves Listserv.
We appreciate your insights.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div><br>
</div>
<div>best regards </div>
</div>
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</span></div>
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