<div dir="ltr">There are many people spread lies for the Chinese regime, they are called "50 cents" by netizens, hundreds of thousands of them( a large number? yes ). this is a part of many lies in China. so distinguish any information from China for yourselves, Dear stovers.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-02 1:27 GMT+08:00 Todd Albi <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:todd.r.albi@gmail.com" target="_blank">todd.r.albi@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">This is an older (pre-bronze) pottery stoves, perhaps used for drying a small amount of tea leaves or heating tea. This is thought to be from the Xia Dynasty, unearthed near Xuzhou. The protrusion to far left is the chimney on the stove. The larger cup appears to be where maybe tea leaves were dried, and the higher firepower ports were used for heating water? Perhaps stove on right uses one port for heating water and the other formerly had the chimney Ito the rear, now missing? Just non-scholarly guesses on my part.<div><img src="cid:ii_jao692dh0_1601314fab611e95" width="320" height="204"> <img src="cid:ii_jao69van1_16013158c34b7319" width="320" height="276"></div><div><br>Apologize, but it was not possible to get any information or better photographs of these stoves. They were not accessible and at the back of the exhibits. The other items appeared to be of more important historical significance. Maybe Shell, GACC, EPA, or others would like to fund efforts for me to attempt to document some of this history.</div><div><br></div><div>Todd Albi, SilverFire<br><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:19 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hfyblx@163.com" target="_blank">hfyblx@163.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></span><div><div class="h5"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="#954F72"><div class="m_2904807470917271951m_-4421963700876102249WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Hi all, </p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I have to apologize for having been absent from the conversation here for a long time. I have been struggling with my prelim since early this year if this is kind of excuse<span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:DengXian">…</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">The public kitchen movement is a product of ambitious growth goal that was set by the Chinese government (Great Leap Forward) back in the earlier years after the establishment of People<span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:DengXian">’</span>s republic of China. The government wanted to increase the steel production to beat the US and UK by having the small steel furnace built in lots of the villages. However, back then, there was not much iron mine in China due to the weak heavy industry and there was no way that the village would get access to the raw material for steel industry, not even mention that the production process applied could not make steel, but only some metal craps. As a result, all the iron woks in each house had to donate to the local <span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:DengXian">“</span>blast furnace<span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:DengXian">”</span> which consumed lots of local wood and biomass source (another story) as energy. That is the reason why it was not allowed to cook food in single family, instead, people all ate in the public kitchen. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Disasters came along pretty soon. Both natural cause and artificial cause, natural cause account for 30% and government policy account for 70% (quoted from the website of The history of the people<span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:DengXian">’</span>s republic of China). Food storage went down very fast and people died of starvation (10 million based on the same website and there is no way I can find whether it is true or not). My dad and mom were born right around that three years and they were lucky. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">1500 RMB for a stove, especially heavy heating stove is a common price I would say, while in the 1990s, the price was only 400 RMB. Prices are all relative. Back to the day when my parents got married, they can still afford that 400 RMB heating stove, accounting for less than 1/10 of annual income. There are poorer people and richer people all over the world, every county. Objectively speaking, the price of the stove in China is reasonable and government has done a lot to distribute the stoves to the project area (part of the poverty alleviation policy) at low cost or no cost for the receivers. The government will pay for the stove and the receivers only need to pay 50 RMB or so for delivery, so far as I know by doing the investigation in Shanxi, Hubei province supported by Shell foundation. Things might be different in other places but for the project areas, the receivers don<span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:DengXian">’</span>t need to pay for the stove that distributed by the project, that is for sure. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">During that investigation, I<span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:DengXian">’</span>ve seen stoves that were sent to the houses in the project conducted several years ago. I have to say, some of them were stored like new in the backyard and had never been used due to all the barriers realized by the researchers. However, some of them were in very poor conditions because of everyday wear and tear in the past three or four years. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">But with all the words above, I need to say stove technology is the key to answer the question from a technical point of view like how to increase the performance and how to make TLUD produce less smoke during ignition period and ending period by modifying the dimension and fuel compatibility. The studies that evaluate the stove projects will inform us all the barriers to improved stove adoption and all the great experience during each success stove dissemination. All the effort from the stove community should be appreciated.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I have never experienced the bleak years and all my information came from my parents and my grandparents so please correct me if any story was buried in the history. After all, China is a vast country, similar size to the US, everything is possible. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">By the way, stove DIY is something done years ago in China. People living in the villages made their Zaos ( a type of common old stove in China, In English maybe hearths?) by themselves or hire the mason to do that if they don<span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:DengXian">’</span>t know how to make a good one. In this way, good masons can make stoves with less smoke and less energy use, then words spread and that is how masons made a living. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Best wishes</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Jacky </p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:lhkind@gmail.com" target="_blank">lh cheng</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, November 30, 2017 8:39 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] China and cookstoves -- stove history</p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Dear Dr,</p><div><p class="MsoNormal">there is very little information in English about that, not even in Chinese. I am afraid I can't provide more.:( Smoke and stove is a very important causation, superficial though. yes, <span style="font-size:10.5pt">China has moved on since those bleak years of 1959-61. but</span> the regime never admitted it, let alone apologize for it. research or evidence collecting is not welcomed. and I need to break GFW to contact with you now in 2017.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">regards </p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">2017-12-01 12:02 GMT+08:00 Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>:</p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.4in">Cheng,<br><br>I am learning a lot. I am dividing the thread into a couple of parts. This first one is about history issues of stoves in China.<br><br>The Wikipedia article is informative. But not about stoves. Are there writings about the "public kitchen" you mention or about stove issues such as the smoke causing retaliation by the autorities? Our focus is about stoves and fuels. I find this topic interesting, but only as history. China has moved on since those bleak years of 1959-61. <br><br>Paul<br><br><br></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:(309)%20452-7072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a></pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.4in">On 11/30/2017 8:55 PM, lh cheng wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:3.4in">Dear Dr Anderson and Stovers,</p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:3.8in"> ><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Please provide more information about this statement about 30 million deaths.</span></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:3.4in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">this is the link <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Great_Chinese_Famine</a> about it. many details. it is called "Gong Chan Feng( wind of Communism)" by my father and mother and their generation, called "public kitchen" movement also, if any smoke arise in any home, government officials would rush in and destroy the stove, pots or dishes, these kind of thing is forbidden in home, and all confiscated. in some villages, no one survived everyone died, in silence. if there were some smokeless clear-burn stove applied, maybe more people could survive? actually, technology doesn't matter at all, in a world of lies, technology only serves and helps lies.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:3.4in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.4in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.4in"><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list<wbr>s.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg/</a><br><br></p></blockquote></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list<wbr>s.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></div><br></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_<wbr>lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>