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Crispin,<br>
<br>
Good point.<br>
<br>
I wonder how ofter "pride of ownership" is included in the
evaluations. <br>
<br>
I hope that such a quesiton can be asked to the 40,000 (or a sample)
users of the Champion TLUD stove in West Bengal. <br>
<br>
About surveys and questionnaires and interviews, (whether for stoves
or other topics), questions keep being changed, so comparison
between results are often difficult or meaningless because of
wording. Are there some common (shared) questions that tend to be
used in stove surveys? <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/3/2017 5:35 AM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
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In the survey of potential stove users conducted in Gauteng
2004, "Pride of ownership" scored above price and fuel
consumption in a ranking of features. </div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
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<br>
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Philip confirms this aspect of reality in the South African
market. </div>
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<br>
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Regards </div>
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Crispin </div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">“</span><span
style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Capital
cost of the stove is a minor issue; the question is
whether the users like and use the stove.” A community I
studied carefully had a monthly household income of
<$100 yet strove to buy a smokey cast iron coal-fired
stove costing ~$400. It met all their needs – including a
higher social status merely because they possessed such a
stove.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Prof Philip Lloyd</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Energy Institute, CPUT</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">PO Box 1906</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Bellville 7535</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Tel 021 959 4323</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Cell 083 441 5247</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">PA Nadia 021 959 4330</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;
padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> Stoves
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nikhil Desai<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 2, 2017 1:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Anderson<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] China and cookstoves [Was
Re: A user-centered, iterative engineering approach for
advanced biomass cookstove design and development]</span></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Paul: <br>
<br>
Capital cost
of the stove
is a minor
issue; the
question is
whether the
users like and
use the stove.
This is why
contextual
definitions
matter,
because pellet
production
costs can vary
greatly
depending on
the
feedstock. <br>
<br>
A high capital
cost stove can
be given
one-time
subsidy -
should be
given to the
distributor if
one exists;
could be given
to a bulk
producer - on
the condition
that the
stoves are
found useful
and used.
Metrics of
efficiency and
hourly
emission rates
are just
smoke. <br>
<br>
I am glad to
read "</span>it
is something
about family,
a cultural
thing,
especially in
country
side." <span
style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Gives
the lie to
physics-only
theories of
supposed
"stove
science". <br>
<br>
Nikhil</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:05 AM,
Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheng and all, (and a mention
of Todd Albi). see below.<br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></pre>
<pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</a></pre>
<pre>Website: <a href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drtlud.com&data=02%7C01%7Ccrispinpigott%40outlook.com%7C62b2f8c8c9bf4c43283c08d53a40c4b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636478972205853695&sdata=PbkCfNM6hUmnmoyj1uEbhKXufYiC9MFTSc3ueAqhjNU%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 11/29/2017 10:15 PM, lh
cheng wrote:</p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;
margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Another Chinese little
project. Surely, it is cookstove, not heater.
Too expensive, 1500RMB (230 USD), in rural
area, a big number, very big, no one buy, not
even one, in rural area. For user, many
uncertainties to use new type of stove. if
free of charge, a trustworthy friend who is an
expert about this stove, that might be fine.</p>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">I was wondering about the price
of that pellet burner stove. Yes, it is expensive,
but expensive is a relative term. It could be
imported into America where $230 is inexpensive, but
the price here would be so much higher and it would
then be expensive here. <br>
<br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">stove thing should be
open-source ( just like Dr Anderson's Champion
Stove ), DIY, or made by acquaintance, it is
something about family, a cultural thing,
especially in country side. In city, electricity
or LPG is enough.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is there any prospect in China
for DIY. And what would be the acceptance of a
stove made with thin metal? Generalizing, it seems
that heavy construction of stoves is the standard in
China. Todd Albi might be able to shed some light
on this.<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">a good approach for stove
design maybe is that, basic knowledge of stove
design spread among people, and people help each
other.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What do you have in mind? in
the context of China? I have difficulty imagining
stove design work in China outside of the factory
context.<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">concerning "stove
intervention", during 1959-1961 in China, more
than 30 millions of people died because a stove
intervention movement. and people have memories.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please provide more information
about this statement about 30 million deaths.<br>
<br>
Welcome to the world of the Stoves Listserv. We
appreciate your insights.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">best regards </p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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