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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-ZA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Capital cost of the stove is a minor issue; the question is whether the users like and use the stove.” A community I studied carefully had a monthly household income of <$100 yet strove to buy a smokey cast iron coal-fired stove costing ~$400. It met all their needs – including a higher social status merely because they possessed such a stove.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Prof Philip Lloyd<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Energy Institute, CPUT<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PO Box 1906<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bellville 7535<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tel 021 959 4323<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cell 083 441 5247<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PA Nadia 021 959 4330<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nikhil Desai<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 2, 2017 1:50 AM<br><b>To:</b> Paul Anderson<br><b>Cc:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] China and cookstoves [Was Re: A user-centered, iterative engineering approach for advanced biomass cookstove design and development]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Paul: <br><br>Capital cost of the stove is a minor issue; the question is whether the users like and use the stove. This is why contextual definitions matter, because pellet production costs can vary greatly depending on the feedstock. <br><br>A high capital cost stove can be given one-time subsidy - should be given to the distributor if one exists; could be given to a bulk producer - on the condition that the stoves are found useful and used. Metrics of efficiency and hourly emission rates are just smoke. <br><br>I am glad to read "</span>it is something about family, a cultural thing, especially in country side." <span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Gives the lie to physics-only theories of supposed "stove science". <br><br>Nikhil</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Cheng and all, (and a mention of Todd Albi). see below.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:(309)%20452-7072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 11/29/2017 10:15 PM, lh cheng wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Another Chinese little project. Surely, it is cookstove, not heater. Too expensive, 1500RMB (230 USD), in rural area, a big number, very big, no one buy, not even one, in rural area. For user, many uncertainties to use new type of stove. if free of charge, a trustworthy friend who is an expert about this stove, that might be fine.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal>I was wondering about the price of that pellet burner stove. Yes, it is expensive, but expensive is a relative term. It could be imported into America where $230 is inexpensive, but the price here would be so much higher and it would then be expensive here. <br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>stove thing should be open-source ( just like Dr Anderson's Champion Stove ), DIY, or made by acquaintance, it is something about family, a cultural thing, especially in country side. In city, electricity or LPG is enough.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>Is there any prospect in China for DIY. And what would be the acceptance of a stove made with thin metal? Generalizing, it seems that heavy construction of stoves is the standard in China. Todd Albi might be able to shed some light on this.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>a good approach for stove design maybe is that, basic knowledge of stove design spread among people, and people help each other.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>What do you have in mind? in the context of China? I have difficulty imagining stove design work in China outside of the factory context.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>concerning "stove intervention", during 1959-1961 in China, more than 30 millions of people died because a stove intervention movement. and people have memories.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>Please provide more information about this statement about 30 million deaths.<br><br>Welcome to the world of the Stoves Listserv. We appreciate your insights.<br><br>Paul<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>best regards <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>