<div dir="ltr"><div>TLUD stove is efficient but fragile. this fragile concept comes from a book "Antifragile", written by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, like Dr Anderson, he is a Doctor and professor. He have a good understanding of man-made artificial system, have deep insight of the weakness of some man-made system, and he find a good way to make money (of no small amount ) through it from financial market. </div><div><br></div><div>Fragile thing like Titanic ship, is high efficient, beautiful, but there were big risks, which cannot be avoided anyway, underneath the surface, when something wrong happened eventually, inevitably, no one can afford it.</div><div><br></div><div>I criticize TLUD stove here, not in malice, but try to make something clear, maybe we can find out the hindrance of its popularity, find a direction to improve it, and help the user to use it in a safer way.</div><div><br></div><div>TLUD stove separates gas combustion from gasification, and is batch-feed, this combination create efficiency and convenience, but also big risk. many thing can cause the fire ( gas combustion ) go out, too much or too little gas, too much or too little air, temperature too low, (too much or too little prmary air, cause too much or too little gas, both can lead to extinguish of the secondary combustion), too much moisture in the fuel. once the fire go out, great smoke jet out like crazy, poisonous, and the fuel is burning inside the inner cylinder like crazy, no easy way to put out the first combustion. it is very dangerous and bad situation for housewife, neighbors scared by the big smoke, people even can got killed by the poisonous gas. (when water can't low down the charcoal temperature, water H2O can be turned into poisonous CO gas immediately).</div><div><br></div><div>Traditional stove have no such thing, because it is not batch-feeding, not burning in a tight closed space. and safer in unexpected situation. it is robust. that's why people prefer it over TLUD stove maybe.</div><div><br></div><div>I have no clear idea yet, I just typed this message, not thinking it thoroughly.</div><div><br></div><div>best regards</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-02 7:50 GMT+08:00 Nikhil Desai <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail-m_-5662447623776830519gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif">Paul: <br><br>Capital cost of the stove is a minor issue; the question is whether the users like and use the stove. This is why contextual definitions matter, because pellet production costs can vary greatly depending on the feedstock. <br><br>A high capital cost stove can be given one-time subsidy - should be given to the distributor if one exists; could be given to a bulk producer - on the condition that the stoves are found useful and used. Metrics of efficiency and hourly emission rates are just smoke. <br><br>I am glad to read "</font>it is something about family, a cultural thing, especially in country side." <font face="georgia, serif">Gives the lie to physics-only theories of supposed "stove science". <span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br>Nikhil<br></font></span></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span class="gmail-">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Cheng and all, (and a mention of Todd Albi). see below.<br>
<pre class="gmail-m_-5662447623776830519gmail-m_-1066852585149645021moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="gmail-m_-5662447623776830519gmail-m_-1066852585149645021moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:(309)%20452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a class="gmail-m_-5662447623776830519gmail-m_-1066852585149645021moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="gmail-m_-5662447623776830519gmail-m_-1066852585149645021moz-cite-prefix">On 11/29/2017 10:15 PM, lh cheng wrote:<br>
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<div>Another Chinese little project. Surely, it is cookstove,
not heater. Too expensive, 1500RMB (230 USD), in rural area, a
big number, very big, no one buy, not even one, in rural area.
For user, many uncertainties to use new type of stove. if free
of charge, a trustworthy friend who is an expert about this
stove, that might be fine.<br>
</div>
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</blockquote>
I was wondering about the price of that pellet burner stove. Yes,
it is expensive, but expensive is a relative term. It could be
imported into America where $230 is inexpensive, but the price here
would be so much higher and it would then be expensive here. <br>
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<div>stove thing should be open-source ( just like Dr Anderson's
Champion Stove ), DIY, or made by acquaintance, it is
something about family, a cultural thing, especially in
country side. In city, electricity or LPG is enough.</div>
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</blockquote>
Is there any prospect in China for DIY. And what would be the
acceptance of a stove made with thin metal? Generalizing, it seems
that heavy construction of stoves is the standard in China. Todd
Albi might be able to shed some light on this.<br>
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</div>
<div>a good approach for stove design maybe is that, basic
knowledge of stove design spread among people, and people help
each other.</div>
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</blockquote>
What do you have in mind? in the context of China? I have
difficulty imagining stove design work in China outside of the
factory context.<br>
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</div>
<div>concerning "stove intervention", during 1959-1961 in China,
more than 30 millions of people died because a stove
intervention movement. and people have memories.</div>
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</blockquote>
Please provide more information about this statement about 30
million deaths.<br>
<br>
Welcome to the world of the Stoves Listserv. We appreciate your
insights.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
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<div>best regards </div>
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