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Crispins. see below. (of interest to some on the
Biochar Listserv)<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/5/2017 1:39 AM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear
Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There is
nothing controversial or toxic about this question. You have
a stove project that has a CDM component – apparently the
first CDM project approved for stoves – someone said (which
I found an amazing claim).</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
"Someone" misinformed you. <br>
<br>
I am not all-knowng about carbon credits (CC), so we can work
together to get full answers. First, we note that CDM (Clean
Development Mechanism) is not the same designation as CER (Certified
Emission Reduction) and VER (Voluntary Emission Reduction). There
are stove projects with CC in the form authorized by Gold Standard
Foundation (GS) for voluntary credits (VERs). I do not know if
there are other stove projects for which the CC is registered /
verified as CER via the UNFCCC which is the only entity that can
give the CER designation. Gold Standard can provide either VER and
CER forms of CDM. The TLUD stove project in West Bengal is with GS
CER status.<br>
<br>
So I am sending a copy of this message to Olivier Lefebvre who works
in this field of stoves and carbon credits. And maybe my India
contacts will inform me further.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MWHPR22MB07847189DA990314CB3F8911B13D0@MWHPR22MB0784.namprd22.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Anyway:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">></span></b>I repeat: NOT subsidized.<br>
<span style="color:windowtext">>…</span>if you are willing
to help, including to help test the website regarding
donations or the purchase GS CER fully certified carbon
credits. )<br>
<br>
<span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">It is a
donation. There are beneficiaries.
<i>Something</i> is subsidized. I want to know where the CDM
money goes. I do not care
<i>where</i> it goes , I just want to see the whole
financial picture. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
The donations that go through the NFP that I have established are
for sponsoring a Champion TLUD woodgas stove in West Bengal, so it
subsidizes those stoves for appropriately low-income families. (We
are just getting started. Apart from my own money, there are now
two donations that total $90 form persons who have been willing to
help us test the processing of donations. We will also need to
test for the funds to acquire TLUD-based GS CER carbon credits. We
only deal with TLUD-generated carbon credits. (write to me off
line if willing to assist.) )<br>
<br>
The donations do not subsidize the char collection business.<br>
<br>
Note: The major TLUD stove projects in West Bengal are managed by
the Germany-based entity called atmosfair You can see their
information at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.atmosfair.de/en/home">https://www.atmosfair.de/en/home</a> There you
can purchase carbon credits to offset airline travel. <br>
<br>
The specific info about the TLUD projects in India are at:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.atmosfair.de/en/energieeffizienz/indien_holzvergaserofen_cdm">https://www.atmosfair.de/en/energieeffizienz/indien_holzvergaserofen_cdm</a><br>
<br>
atmosfair uses it funding to get the stoves from the factories (as
explained in the Deganga report). So those stoves are subsidized
for the households. But the money is recovered via the sales of
carbon credits during 7 years.<br>
<br>
Question: Is it a subsidy if the person pays in the form of
signing away his or her rights to the carbon credits that will be
earned by the use of the stove? Or is it a form of
"micro-finance" with repayment handled by the dealer in the carbon
credits? And if the monetary return to the CC dealer is greater
than the initial value of the stove, is that not basically
equivalent to the charging of interest on a micro-finance loan? <br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">This will
inform my first question which is: can the [char purchase]
project continue if this money source [of carbon credit
sales] is cut off. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Answer: Yes.<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I was not
thinking of your request for $40 per stove, I was thinking
of the CDM money which according to Sujatha, was necessary
to buy the char at a viable price and sell it to the
foundry.
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
You either misunderstood Sujatha or she was incorrect.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">If the value
as a coal replacement is adequate to cover the cost of
collection and delivery, then it is viable without the CDM
money. If it is needed, then it is not.
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
It is viable. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MWHPR22MB07847189DA990314CB3F8911B13D0@MWHPR22MB0784.namprd22.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Is this
clear? There is external money flowing into the project. I
expressed no opinion about whether or not it was good or
bad. The question is whether or not it can continue
indefinitely without that money.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
There are two separate business operations. We are discussing the
CHAR PURCHASE business, not the overall stove project.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">If it can,
the next assessment of risk is what change might take place
and how that would affect the viability. If the change
wrought indeed made it unviable financially, what steps can
be take to mitigate the risk?</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I addressed that in my previous message. The risk is a weakness of
operational management if the CC business stops, and I said there
seems to be sufficient mid-level management to hold the char
purchase business together.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MWHPR22MB07847189DA990314CB3F8911B13D0@MWHPR22MB0784.namprd22.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">This is
normal due diligence. We are not allowed to take
unconscionable risks and risks have to have a mitigation
plan. Stove char is a business and needs a business plan. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Almost right. It would be good to have a well layed out business
plan. But the plan is not as polished as the Western world might
like it to be. Personally, I am glad that things are functional and
participants know their roles and do them. To have a great business
plan (formal sense) would require talent and money. Volunteers are
welcome to do the business plan task.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">If it
depends on a subsidy, say so, and let us know that it is an
essential element, and we will prepare for it. We will
justify it to governments or donors if we can.
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Repeat: The char purchase program has no subsidy whatsoever and
employes about 100 people in the Deganga area alone.<br>
<br>
And I repeat my comment from above: <b><i>Is it a subsidy if the
person pays in the form of signing away his or her rights to the
carbon credits that will be earned by the use of the stove?
Or is it a form of "micro-finance" with repayment handled by the
dealer in the carbon credits? And if the monetary return to
the CC dealer is greater than the initial value of the stove, is
that not basically equivalent to the charging of interest on a
micro-finance loan? <br>
</i></b><br>
Are we discussing something that is a truly different approach to
the financing of large numbers of cookstoves? It seems to be
working well with the TLUD stoves that are earning 4 carbon credits
per year of verified usage.<br>
<br>
All comments and assistance will be gratefully accepted.<br>
<br>
Paul <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<br>
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