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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Xavier,</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you for your response. Attached are some answers to the questions you raised.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Kirk H.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com">Xavier Brandao</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, December 11, 2017 5:57 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'</a>; <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">'Ronal W. Larson'</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] stove</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Kirk,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks a lot for contributing to the debate, and for sharing your story.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>Now this is really interesting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><br>You developed a stove that is, from what I read, highly performing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>You needed to use a lab protocol to develop it, you used the WBT. You say it allowed you to improve the stove, to the level it is today.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>“Perhaps the same results could have been achieved without the WBT, but I could not have measured them, so there might have been changes in the stove that made no improvement because I couldn’t test them. A lot of luck would have been involved.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>You could have improved your stove while using another lab protocol. There are other lab protocols allowing to measure the performance without relying on luck, of course there are.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>The questions that I think of: were some of the results of the WBT useful, some other misleading? All of them useful? Did you develop and improve your stove thank to, or despite the WBT? Would you have made your stove better with another lab protocol, or worse?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>It would be great to compare the way you did the testing with the WBT, and the way you would have done it with another lab protocol. And see how results may have differed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><br>Can people working with other protocols on the List react?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><br>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><br>Xavier<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=FR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>De :</span></b><span lang=FR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>De la part de</b> Kirk H.<br><b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 12 décembre 2017 02:12<br><b>À :</b> Ronal W. Larson; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Objet :</b> Re: [Stoves] stove<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ron and All,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I did use the WBT to develop the Wonderwerk 316 stove. It was however only part of the overall testing. Mainly I used it to test changes in the stove intended to get more of the heat produced by the stove to the surface of the pot, and less heat lost out the sides of the stove. I used the same pot/skirt/pot-stand combination through all of this part of the testing, so the WBT showed only the results of the changes in the stove. I was not so concerned about the geometry of the cooking surface because it will change for different uses; pot, frying pan, wok, plancha, or whatever. I was concerned only with getting the most possible heat that is produced by the stove to the cooking surface. Perhaps the same results could have been achieved without the WBT, but I could not have measured them, so there might have been changes in the stove that made no improvement because I couldn’t test them. A lot of luck would have been involved.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>This way of using the WBT was only at Aprovecho. At Berkely we were testing the stove as designed at Aprovecho, not making changes. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Kirk H.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">Ronal W. Larson</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, December 11, 2017 3:32 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net">Kirk H.</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: stove<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Kirk:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Nice.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>The stove list has had a lot of disagreement about the water boiling test (WBT). Can you say that you used that a lot to make iterative improvements? And eventually of course at Apro and Berkeley. Any way that today’s results could have been made without the WBT?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ron<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Dec 11, 2017, at 3:44 PM, Kirk H. <<a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net">gkharris316@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"><span style='color:#954F72'>Mail</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><Kirk stove.mp4><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div id=DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR><o:p> </o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=3 cellpadding=0 style='border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'><tr><td width=55 style='width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:13.5pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=46 height=29 style='width:.4833in;height:.3in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=470 style='width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:12.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'>Garanti sans virus. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='color:#4453EA'>www.avast.com</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>