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Hi Michael</div>
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Good to hear from you again. </div>
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Do you have:</div>
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A scale up to 20 kg</div>
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A thermometer up to 100 C</div>
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A watch displaying seconds</div>
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<span style="font-size:initial; text-align:initial; line-height:initial">A knowledge of what fuel you are burning</span></div>
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<span style="font-size:initial; text-align:initial; line-height:initial">With that you can do
<i>a lot</i><span>. </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:initial; line-height:initial; text-align:initial">Regards </span></div>
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<span style="font-size:initial; line-height:initial; text-align:initial">Crispin </span></div>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Lets look at this another way.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">NO lab, <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">NO equipment</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">How do I test? <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">I thinking how well it cooks my tea is a good tool<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Xavier Brandao <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com" target="_blank">xav.brandao@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="FR">
<div class="m_-2426642016079343952WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Dear Kirk,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Thanks a lot for contributing to the debate, and for sharing your story.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Now this is really interesting.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
You developed a stove that is, from what I read, highly performing.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">You needed to use a lab protocol to develop it, you used the WBT. You say it allowed you to improve the stove, to the level it is today.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#1f497d">“Perhaps the same results could have been achieved without the WBT, but I could not have measured them, so there might have been changes in the stove that made no improvement because I couldn’t test them.
A lot of luck would have been involved.”<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">You could have improved your stove while using another lab protocol. There are other lab protocols allowing to measure the performance without relying on luck, of course there are.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">The questions that I think of: were some of the results of the WBT useful, some other misleading? All of them useful? Did you develop and improve your stove thank to, or despite the WBT? Would you have made your
stove better with another lab protocol, or worse?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">It would be great to compare the way you did the testing with the WBT, and the way you would have done it with another lab protocol. And see how results may have differed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
Can people working with other protocols on the List react?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
Xavier<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.<wbr>bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Kirk H.<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 12 décembre 2017 02:12<br>
<b>À :</b> Ronal W. Larson; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Stoves] stove<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Ron and All,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I did use the WBT to develop the Wonderwerk 316 stove. It was however only part of the overall testing. Mainly I used it to test changes in the stove intended to get more of the heat produced by the stove to the surface
of the pot, and less heat lost out the sides of the stove. I used the same pot/skirt/pot-stand combination through all of this part of the testing, so the WBT showed only the results of the changes in the stove. I was not so concerned about the geometry
of the cooking surface because it will change for different uses; pot, frying pan, wok, plancha, or whatever. I was concerned only with getting the most possible heat that is produced by the stove to the cooking surface. Perhaps the same results could have
been achieved without the WBT, but I could not have measured them, so there might have been changes in the stove that made no improvement because I couldn’t test them. A lot of luck would have been involved.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">This way of using the WBT was only at Aprovecho. At Berkely we were testing the stove as designed at Aprovecho, not making changes.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kirk H.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank">
Mail</a> for Windows 10<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From: </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">Ronal W. Larson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, December 11, 2017 3:32 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net" target="_blank">Kirk H.</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: stove<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kirk:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="m_-2426642016079343952apple-tab-span"><span lang="EN-US">
</span></span><span lang="EN-US">Nice.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="m_-2426642016079343952apple-tab-span"><span lang="EN-US">
</span></span><span lang="EN-US">The stove list has had a lot of disagreement about the water boiling test (WBT). Can you say that you used that a lot to make iterative improvements? And eventually of course at Apro and Berkeley. Any way that today’s results
could have been made without the WBT?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Ron<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Dec 11, 2017, at 3:44 PM, Kirk H. <<a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net" target="_blank">gkharris316@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Sent from<span class="m_-2426642016079343952apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank"><span style="color:#954f72">Mail</span></a><span class="m_-2426642016079343952apple-converted-space"> </span>for
Windows 10<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><Kirk stove.mp4><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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