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<p><font size="+1">Paul,</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">What was wrong with the first one?</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"></font><br>
</p>
<p>If you have [acorns] and [using a system] you [complete the task]
of getting the water hot enough for tea then that is a successful
system. <br>
</p>
Now one can experiment with faster, fewer acorns, less PM2.5 etc.
First we need to set up and work off a systematic scientific
approach. <br>
<br>
I would hesitate in using words like 'fire power' and 'power level'
because you will bring in the engineers. Its just words like 'the
time it takes' for now. Now the best place for engineers is working
on finishing the calculations for the WBT with Ron leading the way.
<wink> <br>
<br>
Once we get the variables controlled there will be a lot of things
we can do. And all the calculations the engineers want to do for
purpose of improving the system may be possible and we can go back
to look at them. But we need to use wild biomass and have good
controls of the process in an organized way first or we go in
circles. <br>
<br>
i think the TLUD will benefit most from this because it is so much
more important to get the fuel processed and packed properly. <br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Frank<br>
<br>
Frank Shields<br>
Gabilan Laboratory<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/12/17 9:45 AM, Paul Anderson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ede4aa6f-64af-7ef6-e0fd-84e93bade8c1@ilstu.edu">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Stovers,<br>
<br>
I usually re-read my messages before sending, but I messed up on
this last one. Below is the same message wth corrected English
and typing.<br>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table class="moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Subject:
</th>
<td>Re: [Stoves] stove AND 6-BOX SYSTEM</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Date:
</th>
<td>Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:09:31 -0600</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">From:
</th>
<td>Paul Anderson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><psanders@ilstu.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">To: </th>
<td>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
Frank,<br>
<br>
To know the actual power as a calculated number MIGHT not be so
important. But conversations and comparisons need to be in the
right ballpark about how powerful a stove is. <br>
<br>
In the case of the "tea-test", the info in the 6 boxes needs to
be the same except for one variable that is being studied. And
there will be some level of fire power that is to be held
constant (unless that is the variable being studied). Also,
when another variable is changed, the impact might be seen in
the "power level" that is expressed as how much faster or slower
the pot came to boil (therefore the use of the clock/watch.).<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/11/2017 11:58 PM, Frank
Shields wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:377ee484-e845-5f2c-df05-a5e0540f1757@cruzio.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<p><font size="+1">Very funny Paul. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I don't think knowing the thermal power is
at all important. Ask the s/he using the stove what
thermal power they want. What?! and I have always
wondered if changing the thickness of the pot is best to
control the heat. Thick walled pot and more seconds to
heat the task. But certainly no number is needed nor
possible. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Regards</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Frank <br>
</font></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/11/17 9:23 PM, Paul
Anderson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:d42b0390-b07e-325a-8872-9c8391acfd13@ilstu.edu">
Frank,<br>
<br>
Your USE of the 6-box system is the clearest explanation
that I have read. Your comments put it into practical
perspective.<br>
<br>
Philip Lloyd's comment about wanting to know the thermal
power is correct. And you can overcome that with a watch
that shows seconds. Record the time-to-boil. Record it
in Box 5 or 6, right? <br>
<br>
And it certainly could be useful for Michael's needs. Or
for teaching science under a tree in rural Africa.<br>
<br>
**** joke: Michael teaches at the college. but if he was
studying there, this could become known as student's
tea-test (Ouch!) ***<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/11/2017 10:13 PM, Frank
Shields wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:05847a7e-9eeb-7475-c757-b066aff461fa@cruzio.com">
<p><font size="+1">Hi Michael, Stovers;<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">This is a good example where the 6-Box
system would be useful. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Set up the system so it makes good tea.
The process is to control the variables and modify one
at a time to improve the process. There are lots of
steps you can do but would take some time, test
methods and a little equipment. All simple but not
good at this time. Once you have a good fuel, good
technique, and can produce a good cup of tea I suggest
the following:</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Box-1) Observe the fuel for size,
moisture, cleanliness etc. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Box - 2: Record the process loading the
combustion chamber.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Box- 3: Record the combustion chamber;
stove model etc.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Box-4: Establish info regarding the
utensils used; metal, size, heavy-light etc.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Box-5: Record the process; stirring,
amount of water, amount of tea, sugar added etc.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Box-6: Determine a good repeatable
Completion Point. Perhaps water just starts to boil or
i can hold my hand on the side of the pot for just one
second.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">You need to know what an improvement
would look like for you. Quicker tea but not care of
amount of fuel. Save on fuel, walk away with less
manipulation, air quality, amount of char left,
quality of char produced, etc. Whats important is what
the end user decides important. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"> <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Now all steps are controlled and should
be repeatable. You can change one Box at a time and
see if that improves the process. Use dryer wood or
stir more frequently. Use a lighter pot or less water.
Add wood more frequent in smaller quantities - try to
get the best conditions. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Because no-one else is doing the same
system you will not be able to compare to other
systems. But you might be able to improve your own.
And there are lots of measurements for the fuel that
can be made (not described here) but use simple test
methods and no need for a real lab. Perhaps just some
basic equipment. <br>
</font></p>
<font size="+1">Frank</font>
<p><font size="+1">Gabilan Laboratory<br>
</font></p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/11/17 6:24 PM, Michael
N Trevor wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMNT9vHu6U0o8MU+bYpqS6EhcRhP8JoSs+b_1WgO-WuRY5-KOQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Lets
look at this another way.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"> NO
lab, <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">NO
equipment</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">How
do I test? <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">I
thinking how well it cooks my tea is a good tool<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Frank Shields
444 Main Street Apt. 4205
Watsonville, CA 95076
(831) 246-0417 cell
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</a></pre>
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