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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-ZA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>One aspect I felt you had left out was the power at which the stove was operating. It affects many things. Just boiling water, at low power you may never get past the nucleate boiling phase; at high power. The transition to film boiling can be slow or abrupt. Add something to the water, and heat transfer again changes – and if what you have added is like starch, then the viscous properties of the pot contents will change with time. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Philip<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Energy Institute, CPUT<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PO Box 1906<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bellville 7535<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tel 021 959 4323<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cell 083 441 5247<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PA Nadia 021 959 4330<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Shields<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:14 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] stove<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Hi Michael, Stovers;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>This is a good example where the 6-Box system would be useful. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Set up the system so it makes good tea. The process is to control the variables and modify one at a time to improve the process. There are lots of steps you can do but would take some time, test methods and a little equipment. All simple but not good at this time. Once you have a good fuel, good technique, and can produce a good cup of tea I suggest the following:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Box-1) Observe the fuel for size, moisture, cleanliness etc. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Box - 2: Record the process loading the combustion chamber.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Box- 3: Record the combustion chamber; stove model etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Box-4: Establish info regarding the utensils used; metal, size, heavy-light etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Box-5: Record the process; stirring, amount of water, amount of tea, sugar added etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Box-6: Determine a good repeatable Completion Point. Perhaps water just starts to boil or i can hold my hand on the side of the pot for just one second.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>You need to know what an improvement would look like for you. Quicker tea but not care of amount of fuel. Save on fuel, walk away with less manipulation, air quality, amount of char left, quality of char produced, etc. Whats important is what the end user decides important. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Now all steps are controlled and should be repeatable. You can change one Box at a time and see if that improves the process. Use dryer wood or stir more frequently. Use a lighter pot or less water. Add wood more frequent in smaller quantities - try to get the best conditions. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Because no-one else is doing the same system you will not be able to compare to other systems. But you might be able to improve your own. And there are lots of measurements for the fuel that can be made (not described here) but use simple test methods and no need for a real lab. Perhaps just some basic equipment. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Frank</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Gabilan Laboratory</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 12/11/17 6:24 PM, Michael N Trevor wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>Lets look at this another way.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>NO lab, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>NO equipment<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>How do I test? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>I thinking how well it cooks my tea is a good tool<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Xavier Brandao <<a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com" target="_blank">xav.brandao@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Kirk,</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks a lot for contributing to the debate, and for sharing your story.</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>Now this is really interesting.</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><br>You developed a stove that is, from what I read, highly performing.</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>You needed to use a lab protocol to develop it, you used the WBT. You say it allowed you to improve the stove, to the level it is today.</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>“Perhaps the same results could have been achieved without the WBT, but I could not have measured them, so there might have been changes in the stove that made no improvement because I couldn’t test them. A lot of luck would have been involved.”</span></i><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>You could have improved your stove while using another lab protocol. There are other lab protocols allowing to measure the performance without relying on luck, of course there are.</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>The questions that I think of: were some of the results of the WBT useful, some other misleading? All of them useful? Did you develop and improve your stove thank to, or despite the WBT? Would you have made your stove better with another lab protocol, or worse?</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'>It would be great to compare the way you did the testing with the WBT, and the way you would have done it with another lab protocol. And see how results may have differed.</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><br>Can people working with other protocols on the List react?</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><br>Best,</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'><br>Xavier</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=FR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span lang=FR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>De la part de</b> Kirk H.<br><b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 12 décembre 2017 02:12<br><b>À :</b> Ronal W. Larson; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Objet :</b> Re: [Stoves] stove</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Ron and All,</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>I did use the WBT to develop the Wonderwerk 316 stove. It was however only part of the overall testing. Mainly I used it to test changes in the stove intended to get more of the heat produced by the stove to the surface of the pot, and less heat lost out the sides of the stove. I used the same pot/skirt/pot-stand combination through all of this part of the testing, so the WBT showed only the results of the changes in the stove. I was not so concerned about the geometry of the cooking surface because it will change for different uses; pot, frying pan, wok, plancha, or whatever. I was concerned only with getting the most possible heat that is produced by the stove to the cooking surface. Perhaps the same results could have been achieved without the WBT, but I could not have measured them, so there might have been changes in the stove that made no improvement because I couldn’t test them. A lot of luck would have been involved.</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>This way of using the WBT was only at Aprovecho. At Berkely we were testing the stove as designed at Aprovecho, not making changes. </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Kirk H.</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank">Mail</a> for Windows 10</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US>From: </span></b><span lang=EN-US><a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">Ronal W. Larson</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, December 11, 2017 3:32 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net" target="_blank">Kirk H.</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: stove</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Kirk:</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span class=m-2426642016079343952apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US> </span></span><span lang=EN-US>Nice.</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span class=m-2426642016079343952apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US> </span></span><span lang=EN-US>The stove list has had a lot of disagreement about the water boiling test (WBT). Can you say that you used that a lot to make iterative improvements? And eventually of course at Apro and Berkeley. Any way that today’s results could have been made without the WBT?</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Ron</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>On Dec 11, 2017, at 3:44 PM, Kirk H. <<a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net" target="_blank">gkharris316@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Sent from<span class=m-2426642016079343952apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank"><span style='color:#954F72'>Mail</span></a><span class=m-2426642016079343952apple-converted-space> </span>for Windows 10</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US><Kirk stove.mp4></span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id="m_-2426642016079343952DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR><o:p> </o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellpadding=0 style='border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'><tr><td width=55 style='width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:13.5pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=46 height=29 id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=470 style='width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:12.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#41424E'>Garanti sans virus. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='color:#4453EA'>www.avast.com</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Frank Shields<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>444 Main Street Apt. 4205<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Watsonville, CA 95076<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>(831) 246-0417 cell<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre></div></body></html>