<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Andrew and list:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Great response below. I agree with all parts (but wondering where/when the word “nazi” first appeared)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I have a different take on this “TLUD" topic. My concern is that “TLUD” or (your preferred term) “descending pyrolysis front” (DPF) don’t get at what I consider the main distinguishing features:</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>a. TLUDs are air controllers (AC) , as opposed to fuel controllers (FC)</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>b. TLUDs are charcoal makers (CM), as opposed to ash makers (AM)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So we could call Paul “Dr. A-TLUD” and he can shorten that to Dr. TLUD, whenever he wishes. His first name, which starts with A is ACME, short hand for “air controlled char maker”. Others can call him/it just “ACME”. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Google says this about “acme”:</div><div class=""><div data-dobid="dfn" style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline;" class="">the point at which someone or something is best, perfect, or most successful.</div><span class="vmod" style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div class="vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important;">"physics is the acme of scientific knowledge"</div></span><div class="vmod" style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><table class="vk_gy vk_tbl" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td class="lr_dct_nyms_ttl" style="font-style: italic; vertical-align: top; white-space: nowrap; padding: 0px 3px 0px 0px;">synonyms:</td><td style="padding: 0px;" class=""><span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="peak" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoIMDAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">peak</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="pinnacle" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoIMTAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">pinnacle</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="zenith" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoIMjAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">zenith</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="height" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoIMzAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">height</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="high point" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoINDAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">high point</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="crown" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoINTAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">crown</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="crest" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoINjAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">crest</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="summit" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoINzAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">summit</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="top" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoIODAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">top</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="apex" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoIOTAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">apex</span>, <span class="_Yht" data-term-for-update="apogee" role="link" tabindex="0" jsaction="dob.uwt" data-ved="0ahUKEwjatfGh8InYAhVD_WMKHU_LBzoQ_SoIOjAA" style="cursor: pointer; color: rgb(26, 13, 171);">apogee</span></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="">So it follows that A-TLUDs are the ACME of small biomass cookstoves.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">of course other small biomass cookstove types would have more descriptive names like F-Rockets (F short for FCAM).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It would also follow that the list moderator becomes Andrew A-DPF. (or he could choose another words still meaning DPF.) (I want P for pyrolysis to stay)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thoughts? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 14, 2017, at 7:35 AM, Andrew Heggie <<a href="mailto:aj.heggie@gmail.com" class="">aj.heggie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 02:26:52 +0000,Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br class=""><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">You are correct: the gasifier that burns charcoal with a descending "fire front" (is that OK with you?) is a TLUD gasifier, not a TLUD pyrolyser.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">As Norbert has pointed out there are many top down updraught fires,<br class="">but I thought we were discussing "migratory pyrolysis front" which is<br class="">fairly specific to the clean burning class of stoves first mentioned<br class="">on this list by Tom Reed and Ronal. I only used the term TLUD as it is<br class="">commonly understood on this list. As I said I would prefer the term<br class="">descending pyrolysis front and I was quite happy with Inverted Down<br class="">Draught as Down Draught gasifiers, like imberts were described as<br class="">that and inverting it meant something to me, it also introduced the<br class="">principle of gravity being involved which I liked as buoyancy of<br class="">offgas and superficial velocity are key to how it works.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">I object to the attempts to assign a principle of operation, a lighting position, and a burn direction, to one particular implementation of it. Top lit refers to something lit on top. Updraft refers to the direction of air flow.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Yes but in saying that you miss my point, it is the combination of<br class="">words that becomes the common term.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">It is inappropriate for promoters of TLUD pyrolysers to claim that the term does not/cannot be applied to other devices that are top lit updraft combustors.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">So you say, others may differ, I don't worry either way.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">We need another term for the moving fire front (if you will) that is descending through the fuel in a downwards migrating direction.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Well I'm happy with descending pyrolysis front in the case of<br class="">describing these type of stoves. I think descending flaming pyrolysis<br class="">front may be possible under very low rates of superficial velocity but<br class="">that's another discussion.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">There is a rule on the internet that once a conversation has descended to the point that one party calls another a Nazi it is time to stop.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Again a wilful misinterpretation of what I was trying to get across.<br class="">Godwin's law applies when a comparison is made of someone in the<br class="">discussion. I was trying to illustrate that certain word combinations<br class="">are recognised as describing one thing and subsequently that<br class="">combination is not used elsewhere. We can leave it at that, there is<br class="">enough unkindness and hatred in this world for me to want to add to<br class="">it, I don't mind people seeing me as socially inept but wouldn't<br class="">deliberately offend anyone reading this list.<br class=""><br class="">Andrew<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>