<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">Ron: <br><br>I have now read the paper and I am baffled at your claim that "it is full of health rationales (for India)."<br><br>It makes no findings about health, just about emission factors in a small part of India. <br>
<br>To the authors' credit, they specify what fuels they have evaluated, provide their chemical analysis. And they have looked at actual cooking, not water boiling. <br><br>I wonder if they had looked at GACC-commissioned study in India of district-level emissions. <br><br>I am astounded at your claim "I doubt one can use this paper to downgrade the WBT." when the authors clearly conclude that " standardized burn protocols (typically
a water boiling test) may not replicate cookstove performance
in the field."<br><br>Only says "may". Because we really don't know much about emission rates across real stoves and fuels. It's mostly a cooked up evidence. <br><br><br>Nikhil<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Nikhil and list:<div><br></div><div><span class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>The (non-fee) paper is at <a href="https://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/17/13721/2017/acp-17-13721-2017.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.atmos-chem-<wbr>phys.net/17/13721/2017/acp-17-<wbr>13721-2017.pdf</a> </div><div><span class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>The supplement at <a href="https://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/17/13721/2017/acp-17-13721-2017-supplement.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.atmos-chem-phys.<wbr>net/17/13721/2017/acp-17-<wbr>13721-2017-supplement.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div><span class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Looks like a credible paper - but not one I am going to read carefully as it is only related to traditional chulas. Seems to have a somewhat different means of monitoring the pollutants - in the field. I doubt one can use this paper to downgrade the WBT.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I am going to guess you won’t like the paper as it is full of health rationales (for India).</div><div><span class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></div><div><span class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Re repeatability, I am working up more on fuel shape, which is a main feature of the L’Orange et al paper. Fuel shape also not covered in the TLUD paper I noted with the 10% efficiency that Crispin has since commented on.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Twenty years ago we had some fine comments from a Professor at Washington University - who (I vaguely recall) was interested in some seeds that performed well for cooking because of their high oil content - that had no other use, because they were poisonous.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="gmail-h5"><div>On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:01 AM, Nikhil Desai <<a href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail-h5"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><table style="font-family:Arial;border-collapse:collapse;border-left:1px solid rgb(228,228,228);border-right:1px solid rgb(228,228,228)"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family:Arial;padding:18px 0px 12px;vertical-align:top"><span style="padding:0px 6px 0px 0px"><a href="http://indiacsr.in/on-the-ground-research-reveals-true-impact-of-cook-stove-emissions-in-india/" target="_blank">On-the-ground research reveals true impact of <b>cook-stove</b> emissions in India</a>. India CSR Network blog, 15 December 2017</span></td></tr></tbody></table><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><div class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923gmail_signature"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><font face="georgia, serif"> </font> "We conducted real-life cookstove tests and burned a wide variety of biofuels, cooked different meals in a number of varying ventilation situations, then <u>recorded the resulting emission levels</u> using high-tech particle measurement devices.</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923gmail_signature"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923gmail_signature"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Once the data was crunched back in St. Louis, the results were startling: In some cases, <u>more than twice the emission levels were detected when compared to the previous lab findings</u>, revising what people thought they knew for decades about this pervasive and dangerous problem."</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div class="gmail-m_1951825311752651923gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br>I wonder what protocols and fuels were used, and also whether they only measured emissions but also concentrations and tried to model the two. <br><br>Or whether the alleged "previous lab findings" are comparable or this research team is just boasting. <br><br>I hope the revisions are not as shoddy as the history. What people thought they knew was what they chose to or were instructed to believe. <br><br>Related press release at <a href="https://source.wustl.edu/2017/08/engineers-work-fight-pollution-home-globally/" target="_blank">Engineers work to fight pollution at home, globally</a>, Erika Ebsworth-Goold August 11, 2017. Haven't yet located the full paper. <br><br>Nikhil </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>