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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-ZA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“Just remember that HHV is always less than LHV, and anything above 100% is WRONG and cannot possibly conserve energy or mass and is therefore unscientific.” <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>HHV stands for Higher Heating Value; LHV stands for Lower Heating Value, so, to the contrary, HHV is always > LHV by definition. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The units in SI are MJ/kg; any report of HHV or LHV in % is wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Philip Lloyd</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Norbert Senf<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 18, 2017 6:43 PM<br><b>To:</b> Law, Steven (MOECC)<br><b>Cc:</b> mhatech@yahoogroups.com; Sauve, Terrence (OMAFRA); John Ackerly; Discussion of biomass<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Top lit updraft combustors<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Thanks, Steven. That's great.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Our experience with domestic-scale cordwood in masonry heaters (50 lb batches @20% moisture) is that the "boiling of water" or latent heat loss is typically in the 13% range, using the Condar spreadsheet HHV calculation <a href="http://heatkit.com/docs/condar.PDF">heatkit.com/docs/condar.PDF</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Law, Steven (MOECC) <<a href="mailto:Steven.Law@ontario.ca" target="_blank">Steven.Law@ontario.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hello all,</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have finally completed a proper study of reporting efficiency using LHV and HHV. It was much more complicated than I thought it would be, and now I know why this is such a mess!</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Just remember that HHV is always less than LHV, and anything above 100% is WRONG and cannot possibly conserve energy or mass and is therefore unscientific.</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>When an LHV efficiency from Europe is 90% (which is actually a reasonable number), the HHV efficiency is a maximum of 84% or usually less, depending on the moisture content of the wood fuel and is more typically 75-80%. This is important, HHV efficiency is extremely dependent on fuel moisture whereas LHV is less so, but only for non-condensing boilers.</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Again, this is for non-condensing combustion devices, because when you throw in high efficiency condensing heat recovery all the numbers get screwy and LHV no longer applies. Everything has to be re-done for condensing boilers and only HHV can be used, I will repeat LHV cannot be used for anything where condensation of the flue gas occurs in the heat recovery device!</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think I have a proper engineering calculation procedure mapped out to deal with all of the above issues and I will begin to roll this out a little bit at a time since I need to review it again before sending anything out. It is a scientific method that is based on conservation of mass and energy and I hope that this new calculation procedure will help to solve some current problems in the industry.</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best regards, Steven</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Norbert Senf<br>Masonry Stove Builders<br>25 Brouse Road, RR 5<br>Shawville Québec J0X 2Y0<br>819.647.5092<br><a href="http://www.heatkit.com" target="_blank">www.heatkit.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>