<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">List: cc Tom</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. I consider this a pretty important thread - and am delighted that Tom (our list owner - and involved longer on this topic than anyone else I know - and both his father and grandfather before him) has entered this. This is to encourage others to join in; my reason is to help out the ongoing TC-285 process - which is itself about half (my guesstimate on words and hours involved) related to the WBT.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. To make sense of this thread, I encourage list members to do a search on your saved messages for the title words ”WBT Controversy”. You will find that mine today is probably the 9th, with Kirk Harris providing his first (and only) on the 21st. Then me in support also on the 21st, and then Crispin and Nikhil alternating on the 21st-23rd until Tom’s also today - Dec. 23rd. Tom is responding here to Nikhil’s bringing in a church connection to WBT numerical ratings (and I’m sure Tiers) - as his way of summarizing Nikhil’s disdain for the numerical values that the WBT provides (and that Kirk, Tom and I are supporting). I believe it accurate to say that Crispin also agrees with Nikhil - I can’t recall his voicing support for the WBT numbers.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3. I have been in off-list conversation with all four of these other writers on this “WBT Controversy” - and have two questions about off-list messages:</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>a. I have too little time to discuss on-list; (for courtesy reasons - I am always going to engage with those agreeing with me. Generally, I am not going to engage with those who I don’t agree. Ss this wrong-headed - should I always take time to argue off list?</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>b. If an off-list message doesn’t say confidential or “off-list”, is it OK to quote from that message back to this list?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4. Now to clear up some other confusions: </div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>a. In message #2 of this thread, I used the term “I disagree” - in replying to thread initiator Kirk. This was intended to be friendly - as I basically was agreeing with everything Kirk wrote. I was trying to say that I like EVERYTHING about the WBT - and I think Kirk does also, but hadn’t said so.</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>b. In message #3, I think Nikhil took my “I disagree” to be addressed at him. I ask here if that was his reason for accusing me of always disagreeing with him?</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>c. The remaining messages 4 - 7 were from Nikhil and Crispin - defending the No-WBT viewpoint. The 7th brings in Nikhil’s “religious” viewpoint.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>5. One can’t understand this short thread without also reading a thread labelled “<font face="Helvetica Neue" class="">Going back to 3-Stone Fire”, which is mainly between Kirk and Crispin and covers almost all the same topics. That one is at least 25 messages long - and active also today. Again this is to ask for anyone who thinks the WBT has been and can continue to be helpful for biomass cookstove improvement (my version of the list purpose) to give a sign of what you would like sent back into the ongoing ISO debates. On-list please - not off-list.</font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>6. In summary, based on word and post counts, Nikhil and Crispin are winning their crusade. Anyone else see some virtue in conducting and reporting a WBT? (bringing in comments from either thread are fine.) Short answers and rationales always preferred.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>7. Tom - why your 30+ million parishioner number? (Not entirely pertinent, but I just read today that India has reached 1.3+ billion, and adding more at the rate of about 1 per second.)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Apologies for the length here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 23, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Tom Miles <<a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" class="">tmiles@trmiles.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">>If those numbers are holy - for claims of health damage or climate protection - I think it’s</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> time to shut down the church. <br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">You’ll have to take that up with 30+ million parishioners. People find their own values in improved cooking stoves.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Tom<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; 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