<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Philip and list</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Thanks for the response - so far the only one. Nikhil responded in this thread but I see no mention at all of the matrix. I won’t respond to his message except to say I am disappointed in his last line unsupported slam again against GACC.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>See inserts below.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 22, 2017, at 2:06 AM, Philip Lloyd <<a href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" class="">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">It made it through my system. A few things were missing - like user acceptance.</div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL1: Also the cost of stoves, and probably several other similar topics. These do need to be mentioned in any report about stoves, but I don’t see a way to include them in the SDG context.</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>What are the other things you found missing?</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""> A few things were included, which were so obviously marketing that I question their value. </div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL2: What were those?</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""> All those +++ against charcoal. </div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL3: Not understood. I had mostly negatives, not positives against charcoal-using stoves. </b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>My positives were all favoring a stove type - not “against”.</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Can you rephrase this?</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></b></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">I have nothing against charcoal, but all the biomass users with whom I interact want to use all the energy in the wood they laboriously harvest, not use only half and then have to store the black stuff that remains. </div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>[RWL4: <b class=""> A few weeks ago, Julien Winter shared a message with us where his char-making TLUD did both - used less wood than the competition and produced char. The idea behind biochar is to put it in the ground - not to “store” it. TLUDs use all, not half of the incoming biomass; if the char is not placed in the soil, it can be used (I hope not) in a char-using stoves - saving the horrible waste in traditional (in-the bush) char making. There 7/8 or 8/9 of a tree is wasted.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Preaching biochar or charcoal cooking to them has not worked.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL: “Preaching” isn’t probably the right word for Julien’s work, where a char-making stove seems to have had good success. (Julien mentioned a marriage on the positive side and theft of a bag of char on the negative).</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span> I’m not sure what you are referring to re “charcoal cooking” not working. My experience with the topic is with heading a USAID project in Sudan, where I feel char use has pretty much ruined the country. The country runs on charcoal. A formerly wooded country is now barren.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I hope you and others will continue communicating on the value if any in this matrix to help improve what I consider a sad situation in the continued use of existing stoves - from especially the health, environment and societal (drudgery, gender inequity, etc) aspects featured in the SDG goals.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div><b class="">Ron</b></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class="">Prof Philip Lloyd<br class="">Energy Institute, CPUT<br class="">PO Box 1906<br class="">Bellville 7535<br class="">Tel 021 959 4323<br class="">Cell 083 441 5247<br class="">PA Nadia 021 959 4330<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ronal W. Larson<br class="">Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 2:07 AM<br class="">To: Discussion of biomass<br class="">Subject: [Stoves] matrix3<br class=""><br class="">List:<br class=""><br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I am attaching a 3-page pdf file that is a first attempt to compare different stove types on a societal scale. The words “WBT” and “fuel type” are not there.<br class="">Please let me know if this didn’t make it through your system; I can send this in other than pdf form.<br class=""><br class="">Ron<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>