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Dear Paul</div>
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I have been providing hard numbers literally for years and no one is taking the point seriously. Perhaps now that you are all reading the papers and realising there is a serious side to this fuel consumption business, it will be given the proper attention it
deserves. </div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">"Authors of papers, whoever they are, should be able to provide some hard data (real numbers) supported by descriptions of how the data were collected."</span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">This is supported by tests and ratings gathered over a number of years including testing conducted by the YDD Lab, however the argument is conceptual, not referring to any particular stove. I have provided examples of actual
stoves including the Quad II test in Uganda, which was based on data graciously made available by you. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">That one hard cover example is sufficient to make the point: the rated 'fuel consumption' is far less than the actual fuel consumption. Only one example is needed to make the point, the point being that the WBT, as Ron prefers
it, grossly over-rates the fuel efficiency of char making stoves. It also over-rates the performance of Rocket stoves and similar if it has a fuel shelf elevating the fuel. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">Properly assessed, a char making stove has to account for the raw fuel needed 'from outside the system' each time it is used. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">At the time that document was written, there were errors later corrected in 2012 which reduced the over-rating significantly but still rated it, in the case of a 'good char maker', at over double the actual efficiency.
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<span style="line-height:initial">That this point is finally getting through to the promoters of these stoves is a nice holiday present to me. Absent a proper consideration of the performance using appropriate metrics, there is only chaos and cheating. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">May all acquaintance be forgot in the new year and all things made right. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">Regards </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">Crispin </span></div>
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<div>Ron and all,<br>
<br>
Sorry to be 6 days late (limited time and some files went to Spam folder -- not yet resoleved).<br>
<br>
I have only briefly lookes at the report from Indonesia. Author(s) not given, but I believe Crispin and Cecil were part of the writing team.
<br>
<br>
Yes, we will need to exmine the comments such as on page 4:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The<br>
development of stoves that make charcoal concurrent<br>
with cooking has resulted in stoves that consume as<br>
much or more fuel than a three stove fire.<br>
<br>
When rated for their 'heat transfer efficiency' (a<br>
calculation of the percentage of heat released from the<br>
fire that enters the pot) there is a mismatch with 'fuel<br>
consumption' since the heat contained in the charcoal<br>
is not released during burning. The WBT rates the<br>
efficiency of the use of energy released, not the<br>
efficiency of the use of the energy in all the fuel<br>
extracted from the forest. Stoves that are 15-20%<br>
efficient from the 'forest's point of view' are being been<br>
credited with 'an efficiency' that is over 50% because<br>
they do not burn all the fuel, it is turned into charcoal.</blockquote>
Authors of papers, whoever they are, should be able to provide some hard data (real numbers) supported by descriptions of how the data were collected.
<br>
<br>
In general, "containerized fires" (such as in most rocket and TLUD and Save-80 and other stoves) shield and direct the heat to the pot far better than do the 3-stove fires. They use less fuel, even when there is a "by-product" of charcoal that no longer looks
like wood but has energy content that can be used for cooking in a different stove.<br>
<br>
In the absence of the above requested data, the reported data from the Deganga Case Study (
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drtlud.com%2Fdeganga2016&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3c020beb6ae44e3f3aa908d54b0d09c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636497441725144771&sdata=Yon8vGHvzC4G1VabeUTDieHTq6WlNXVDrWeDg%2BObatk%3D&reserved=0">
www.drtlud.com/deganga2016</a> ) solidly refutes the above statements.<br>
<br>
Paul. <br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drtlud.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3c020beb6ae44e3f3aa908d54b0d09c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636497441725144771&sdata=E91CUpnLu3PXcD1yvmxkbjLKeeOFFAz%2Bta4hNqoUOk4%3D&reserved=0">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/19/2017 10:11 AM, Ronal W. Larson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">List: cc Crispin and Dr. Winter</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>I’m not sure why Crispin finds it so difficult to give a cite. After five minutes I found this (non-fee) at a World Bank site (it is not findable via Google Scholar):</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcollaboration.worldbank.org%2Fdocs%2FDOC-15092&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3c020beb6ae44e3f3aa908d54b0d09c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636497441725144771&sdata=vNLSbT%2Bate4KkGAe3NPPQRsasENQfwWj8bKY5l2k5BM%3D&reserved=0" class="">https://collaboration.worldbank.org/docs/DOC-15092</a>.
It may be from 2015 - or 2103. I send this early mainly to save time of others who may be looking for it (also early for personal time commitment reasons).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>To make sure I was at the right document, I decided to search the document for “charcoal”. So, to give readers reason to look at the whole document, I send this sentence (again - before
reading the entire document - there may be better examples):</div>
<div class=""><i class=""> “The development of stoves that make charcoal concurrent with cooking has resulted in stoves that consume as much or more fuel than a three stove fire. “</i></div>
<div class=""><i class=""><br class="">
</i></div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="font-style:italic; white-space:pre"></span>To me this shows a serious lack of knowledge on TLUDs. This lack was proven a week ago with Dr. Julien Winter’s nice report of the exact opposite of this statement
- and the delight of cooks with the results of placing the (now) biochar in the ground (without needing more fuel). (See this list on Dec. 5, and 3 subsequent responses from Dr. Winter). Dr. Winter reported not only less fuel, but “free” char (maybe 25%
char - by weight).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Scanning this only briefly, I think there are reasons to also read this in terms of the accuracy we need in a WBT or its possible replacement. I am happy with a few percentage points,
and this authorless paper seems to think we need much better.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>I recommend we have a serious discussion of this article recommended by Crispin. That discussion might clear up a number of misunderstandings both about char-making stoves and testing.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>I’ll come back later to raise some other points as Crispin (below) critiqued Kirk (and me - a little).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ron</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Dec 19, 2017, at 5:37 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="">Dear Kirk</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class=""> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="">I made no mention at all of sensors or quality of equipment, which is not specified in the WBT. I think it is not helpful for you or Ron or anyone to impute disagreements where there are none. The WBT is a test protocol that includes a test method
and a set of calculations. What it your point is saying ‘it includes the CCT’ because it doesn’t exclude it? Seriously: what is your theory of change? Shooting messengers, even hosts of them, does not change the message.</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class=""> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="">Conceptually there is nothing wrote with heating or boiling water. If you want really accurate results, heat water, don’t boil it – a point repeatedly emphasized by Prof Lloyd. There is a paper called “From Water Boiling Test to Water Heating
Test” which explores this, (From WBT to WHT, it is called).</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class=""> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="">If you want even more accurate assessments of your product, use formulas that are derived from first principles. That exercise has been done very by the SeTAR Centre and is why the HPT was created – as a way of avoiding all the historical errors
that have accumulated in the WBT. I mentioned the LVH error in the list of woods at the back of the spreadsheet. That error was identified in 1987 by Sam Baldwin, someone highly praised in certain circles. Yet after 30 year (!) it has still not been corrected
by Shell, Berkeley, Aprovecho, Tami Bond and ETHOS nor the EPA and GACC.</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class=""> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="">How long should we wait for something as simple as a an error in the LHV from HHV calculation to be implemented? Do you agree 30 years is a bit excessive (and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">still</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>not
corrected) is a bit excessive?</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class=""> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="">Why should anyone take seriously the system of informal management of its “main messenger” that cannot gets its technical house in order? I don’t. Neither does Xavier. Not Jiddu. Nor the Indian government nor the Chinese government nor many others.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class=""> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="">Regards</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="">Crispin</span></div>
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<span class=""> </span></div>
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<span class=""> </span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kirk H.<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>19-Dec-17 12:25<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Going back to 3-Stone Fire [Was Re: Chinaandcookstoves]</span></div>
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</div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Thank you for your response. My question was if the disagreement was with all parts of the test or just the water boiling part. I guess your answer means that the disagreement is with all parts of the test including the CO sensors,
CO2 sensors, particulate sensors and the weighing of the filters, as well as the water boiling portion. When you say WBT, you mean all of this, not just the water boiling in the pot. I also assume that the CCT is included in this, since your response did
not exclude it. But since I have nothing else available for my use I will continue as is.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">I was using my stove to compare only because it and the fuel were constant between Aprovecho and LBNL and the results were similar, not to flaunt it as a clean stove. Sorry about the misunderstanding. </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">Kirk H.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">Sent from<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02%7C01%7C%7C508e7c300ead46b2ea9808d546a9a7da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636492616834369342&sdata=NaGH3iFpwknHhuDte1RIdz%2FvvVkaWq9mKs1HvZl20jo%3D&reserved=0" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline">Mail</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for
Windows 10</span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline">Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</a><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Monday, December 18, 2017 7:24 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline">Stoves</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Stoves] Going back to 3-Stone Fire [Was Re: Chinaandcookstoves]</span></div>
</div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear Kirk</span></div>
<div class="">
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; background-color:white">
<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; background-color:white">
<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">No thinks your stove isn't 'clean and efficient'. In truth we don't know what the performance is because none of the WBT spreadsheets for it are not available from Aprovecho (so you said when I asked)
and LBNL not only doesn't share the spreadsheet behind the performance claims, they do their own evaluation using their own method (I wrote to them and asked specifically about your stove).</span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; background-color:white">
<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">In the real world. This is simply unacceptable. We do not accept anyone's performance rating for which we do know know the method and calculations. </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></div>
</div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Similarly, the calculations done in the EPA are not entirely in accordance with the WBT (I asked Jim Jetter for a copy of any stove test to see). </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">The ratings provided by LBNL and EPA Lab may reflect the actual performance on the WBT tasks quite well. No one knows for sure. As I have no need for performance not reflecting use, I don't use the cooking
cycle or the calculations OD the WBT. </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">I do know that both those labs report using IWA metrics without any caution that the 'fuel consumption' per litre boiled or simmered is of questionable value, or no value at all. The consumer of the information
is left with the impression that the numbers are meaningful which they may not be. To me that is at least, deceptive because both labs ae aware of the controversy and implications for the product ratings. </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">It is telling that students at Berkeley are still using the WBT3.0 in view of the fact none of its descendants have been peer reviewed. </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">The WBT should be eschewed and it's outputs ignored. It is unreliable in the strictest sense of the word. </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regards </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Crispin </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">Xavier,</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">I am surprised to read that you don’t know whether you disagree with the sensors, computer graphs, and filters along with the water boiling portion of the test. I did not specify Aprovecho’s equipment in my question. I tested the
same stove on both Aprovecho’s and Lawrence Berkley National Lab’s equipment, and the tests both showed a very clean stove. Does the disagreement include Lawrence Berkley National Lab’s sensors, computer graphs, and filters along with the boiling water portion
of the test? What exactly do those who disagree with the WBT, disagree with, just the water boiling portion of the test or the overall test? Is the Controlled Cooking portion of the test also included in this disagreement?</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">Kirk H.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Sent from<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca5d4400eab92416a77be08d54688eb5a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636492476230709778&sdata=IssiZ2Ne5BQ6ELPc%2BP%2Fu0AsX3R%2BUFdeN%2F1cSK1Nbqoo%3D&reserved=0" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline">Mail</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline">Xavier Brandao</a><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Monday, December 18, 2017 3:29 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline">'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Stoves] Going back to 3-Stone Fire [Was Re: Chinaandcookstoves]</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="FR" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear Kirk,</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="FR" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<i class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">“Do you disagree with the sensors, computer graphs, and filters along with the boiling water?“</span></i><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="FR" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">I don’t really know about that. I believe Crispin said the measurements from Aprovecho equipment was unreliable.</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="FR" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Other than that, the PEMS was breaking down all the time at Prakti, and I believe there are other cases where it happened.</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="FR" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br class="">
Best,</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="FR" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="FR" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Xavier</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="FR" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="">
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" lang="FR" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">De :</span></b><span class="" lang="FR" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">De
la part de</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kirk H.<br class="">
<b class="">Envoyé :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>samedi 16 décembre 2017 00:55<br class="">
<b class="">À :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br class="">
<b class="">Objet :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Going back to 3-Stone Fire [Was Re: China andcookstoves]</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
</div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="FR"> </span><span class="" lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">I have a question.</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">When I test a stove I see sensors, computer graphs and filters along with the pot of water. Do you disagree with the sensors, computer graphs, and filters along with the boiling water? The water boiling portion of the overall test
appears to attract your attention. How much of the overall test do you disagree with? What do you mean when you disagree with the WBT, are you including the sensors, computer graphs and filters?</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">Kirk H.</span></div>
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