<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Dr. Nurhuda cc List, Paul and Julien (and adding Prime headquarters) and (late addition Jorund)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>We met briefly at the GACC meeting in Cambodia.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I am following up on Paul’s “Prime” reference to Julien’s account below of successful stove sales because of positive user response (to biochar) to his TLUD design in Bangladesh. There are thousands of reports of using biochar (even that many technical papers per year). But there are very few reports of biochar and soil associated with char-making stove designs. In my opinion, too many are simply burning the char inefficiently in the same stove in which the char is produced.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Deep below in this thread are several references to work by Dr. Winter in Bangladesh. A good many off us on the stove list are hoping you can report that improved soil productivity is driving some sales (as in Bangladesh) - as hoped for by Dr. Anderson immediately below by your company.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I have looked over the Prime website and am pleased to see the word “biochar” there. For others who have not been to the Prime site, here are two screen shots that I found as good ways to market any stove - and presumably the Prime stove line:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="0B38832C-D7A5-4382-8C95-2DEE648274B2" height="159" width="640" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:179D59E7-5F13-45FF-854D-7D3E9F08BE95" class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>(I presume/hope that the “reducing climate emissions” portion is intended to include “removing” as well as “reducing”; and “improving livelihood” to include making money from sales for use as biochar. All four of these are things that the three-stone fire can’t do. Rockets can do all as well, but none as well as the Prime and other char-making designs. For the rightmost topic - any Prime numbers such as I wrote about two messages down (i.e. making $9.00 in a few months?)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And this screen shot shows an impressive list of Prime partners. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="E18A1A4D-BDDD-4833-B1F5-2DE7F7F27AD3" height="223" width="640" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:EDAD8E5B-362D-431C-8A9C-7D994D17DCD0" class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Dr. Nurhuda, do you think any of these 15 groups are concerned about your stove both providing heat and providing char? Any concern from any of this groups about the ISO TC-285 activity, which recognizes char energy as an important and valid part of the water boiling test (WBT) for stove comparisons (Tiers included)?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>But my main question is that asked by Paul below - any data from Indonesia or anywhere on use of your produced char as biochar?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>As I searched for your email address, I came upon this from 2 years ago - a travesty of justice:</div><div class=""><a href="http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/10/23/world-class-indonesian-stove-lost-local-market-due-subsidy.html" class="">http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/10/23/world-class-indonesian-stove-lost-local-market-due-subsidy.html</a></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Any further news on this LPG topic?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Thanks in advance on anything you can provide on the economic advantages of producing char in a biomass cookstove - and hopefully especially after your char has been placed in the ground. (or on any stove design topic you wish to inform this list)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 23, 2017, at 9:25 PM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Ron and Julien,<br class="">
<br class="">
Good that your did the monetary exchange rates and the conversion
from C to CO2e to get the cost per ton. That needs to be done with
the raw numbers for the Deganga TLUD project in India. I will ask
the project implementer to make those calculations and sent them to
me. <br class="">
<br class="">
We need to build the case for the value of the char from TLUD
stoves. Whether sold to be burned or to be used as biochar is not
the issue. <br class="">
<br class="">
I have not heard of other TLUD projects with selling of the charcoal
made in TLUDs. Maybe Prime has an example???<br class="">
<br class="">
Paul<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/23/2017 1:01 AM, Ronal W. Larson
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:A99E7BC6-7750-4F08-8737-3EB551E813F2@comcast.net" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
Stoves List: (many on this list are also biochar list members -
so apologies for sending this twice.)
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I
could have used many ways to make biochar as I supported a
French CDR (carbon dioxide removal) person, who objected to the
way 3 organizers of a future CDR conference were describing all
CDR approaches as “controversial". I chose Dr. Julien’s
message to this list because I think it really well proves the
beauty of char-making stoves, while also making a real positive
statement about both biochar’s CDR’s potential. So many thanks
to Julien for his message a few weeks ago.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>i
just looked up the value of a “tk” = Taka, which is 1.2 cents.
So the woman quoted below made $9.00 in a “few months” just in
charcoal - but also was buying less wood. And someone else was
making money off increased soil productivity and less expense
for fertilizer. The price for her char was (at 1000 times 12
cents) $120/tonne char. This is about $40 tonne CO2 - and many
CDR approaches are bragging they can get down to $100/tonne CO2.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Anyone
on this list see why biochar (and char-making stoves) should be
“controversial? (This thread being about CDR
controversiality.)<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ron</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">"Ronal W.
Larson" <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Fwd:
[CDR] [geo] EASST 2018 - CfP - The politics of
negative emissions</b><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">December 22,
2017 at 11:34:52 PM MST<br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Biochar <<a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">List:
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I
suggest below that biochar proponents <u class=""><b class="">not</b></u> attend a meeting where
biochar will certainly be discussed. But if anyone
can attend this meeting (time and place TBD), you
might have a very interesting time. I do of course
hope some list member will be able to submit an
abstract per instructions at <a href="https://nomadit.co.uk/easst/easst2018/conferencesuite.php/panels/6270" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://nomadit.co.uk/easst/easst2018/conferencesuite.php/panels/6270</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ron</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">"Ronal W.
Larson" <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re:
[CDR] [geo] EASST 2018 - CfP - The
politics of negative emissions</b><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">December
22, 2017 at 11:22:16 PM MST<br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Renaud de
RICHTER <<a href="mailto:renaud.derichter@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">renaud.derichter@gmail.com</a>>,
Carbon Dioxide Removal <<a href="mailto:CarbonDioxideRemoval@googlegroups.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">CarbonDioxideRemoval@googlegroups.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:n.markusson@lancaster.ac.uk" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">n.markusson@lancaster.ac.uk</a>,
<a href="mailto:rob.bellamy@insis.ox.ac.uk" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rob.bellamy@insis.ox.ac.uk</a>,
<a href="mailto:d.mclaren@lancaster.ac.uk" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">d.mclaren@lancaster.ac.uk</a>,
RAU greg <<a href="mailto:ghrau@sbcglobal.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ghrau@sbcglobal.net</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">Dr. de Richter and CDR list</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.
Thanks for your contribution - adding the
word “some”. I like your emphasis on
methane and N2O removal via solar towers;
biochar can do some of the same.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2.
Being active on the biochar side of CDR,
I was very pleased to hear this past month
of a successful biochar operation in a
report on a “stoves” list by Dr. Julien
Winter. His Bangladesh biochar
organization’s website had two articles on
a new stove type that both used less wood
and produced about 20% charcoal, which is
being placed in soil as biochar. The
articles and a brief excerpt from each
are:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="http://www.biochar-bangladesh.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2016_06_03_TheNewNation.pdf" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>a.
One and a half years ago:
http://www.biochar-bangladesh.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2016_06_03_TheNewNation.pdf</a></div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><i class="">If one household burning 3kg of
wood per day
produced 0.6kg of biochar per day, they
would have
18kg of biochar per month. For a village
of 500
households, that could amount to 108,000
kg biochar
per year. Across the landscape, the
people of
Bangladesh could become the World’s
largest per capita
sequesters of carbon. This is, as a
by-product of
cooking without cutting any additional
forest. </i></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="http://www.biochar-bangladesh.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2016_12_11_DhakaTribune_Akha.pdf" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>b.
One year ago:
http://www.biochar-bangladesh.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2016_12_11_DhakaTribune_Akha.pdf</a></div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><i class="">In Manikganj, Monkhusi Halder
has been using them for a few months and
she sells the bio-char
to farmers as fertiliser, making some
extra cash along with dinner.
“I have been using this stove for the
last few months and sold 75kgs of
bio-char for Tk10 per kg,
reducing the cost of fuel,” Monkhusi
told the Dhaka Tribune while using her
Akha stove.
Khorshed Ali, a farmer in Manikganj, was
visibly excited about the new bio-char
fertiliser.</i></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>These
articles are not emphasizing CDR - but
there is zero conflict with soil
improvements, increased food production
and, income generation. And trivial
investment- we heard the stoves cost about
$20.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/network/communities" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.
At
http://www.biochar-international.org/network/communities</a>
you can see the names of more than 50
similar regional biochar groups. About
10 years ago, there was only IBI, the
International Biochar Initiative (see
same site for its 10-year history) . Does
any other CDR approach have 10% as much
global grassroots CDR support? What is
the evidence that biochar is “deeply
controversial”? I don’t believe China is
finding the subject controversial; the
IBI site describes a very aggressive
5-year plan that is well along. China is
clearly the world biochar leader - and the
IBI headquarters has been moved there.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4.
I now find it difficult to encourage any
biochar supporter to attend this meeting.
Pity - as we need more multi-CDR meetings
- if the discussion is not pre-ordained to
prove universal “controversiality”.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ron</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Dec 22, 2017, at 1:10
PM, Renaud de RICHTER <<a href="mailto:renaud.derichter@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">renaud.derichter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Does not start
very friendly:<br class="">
<div class=""><span class="">... <i class=""><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)" class="">Much like their
taxonomic cousins,
geoengineering by reflecting
sunlight back into space,
negative emissions ideas are
also deeply controversial,
potentially propping up
carbon capitalism, making
sweeping changes to land-use
and posing significant
environmental risks.</span></i>
...<br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="">Why not adding the
word "<i class=""><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)" class=""><b class="">some</b></span></i>"
just before "... <span class=""><i class=""><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)" class="">negative emissions
ideas are </span></i></span><span class=""><i class=""><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)" class="">also deeply
controversial,..."</span></i></span></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<span class=""><span class="">Nils,
Rob & Duncan, there are
many NETs that are not
controversial, but are just
not yet well known nor
discussed.<br class="">
</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class=""><span class=""><br class="">
</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class=""><span class="">Bw, and Season's
Greetings!<br class="">
</span></span></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-22
20:31 GMT+01:00 Greg Rau <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:ghrau@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ghrau@sbcglobal.net</a>></span>:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail-HOEnZb">
<div class="gmail-h5">
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="gmail-m_1803827614254045946WordSection1"><p class="gmail-MsoNormal"><a name="m_1803827614254045946__Hlk501703479" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Dear
all,<br class="">
<br class="">
We invite you
to submit
proposals for
papers to our
open panel<br class="">
<br class="">
</a><span class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif" class=""></span></span></p><p class="gmail-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif" class="">The
politics of
negative
emissions</span></b></span><span class=""><b class="">
</b></span></p><p class="gmail-MsoNormal"><span class="">At <i class="">Meetings
– Making
Science,
Technology and
Society
together</i>,
EASST2018
Conference,
Lancaster, UK,
25-28 July
2018 - <a href="https://easst2018.easst.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://easst2018.easst.net/</a></span><span class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
Convenors: <br class="">
Nils Markusson
(Lancaster
University) <a href="mailto:n.markusson@lancaster.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">n.markusson@lancaster.ac.uk</a><br class="">
Rob Bellamy
(University of
Oxford) <a href="mailto:rob.bellamy@insis.ox.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rob.bellamy@insis.ox.ac.uk</a><br class="">
Duncan McLaren
(Lancaster
University) <a href="mailto:d.mclaren@lancaster.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">d.mclaren@lancaster.ac.uk</a><br class="">
<span style="background:yellow
none repeat
scroll 0% 0%" class=""><br class="">
</span></span><span class="">The
Paris
Agreement on
climate change
has set out
global
commitments to
keeping global
warming well
below 2 °C
above
preindustrial
levels and to
aim for
limiting the
rise to 1.5
°C. The
Intergovernmental
Panel on
Climate Change
has concluded
that meeting
these targets
is possible –
but nearly all
of their
scenarios rely
on the
extensive
deployment of
large-scale
technologies
that remove
greenhouse
gases from the
atmosphere but
do not
currently
exist (as
complete
socio-technical
systems). Critics have argued that assumptions about when such ‘negative
emissions’
technologies
might be ready
and how they
might be
deployed at an
impactful
scale are
desperately
optimistic.
</span><span class=""><span style="background:yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
</span></span><span class="">Much
like their
taxonomic
cousins,
geoengineering
by reflecting
sunlight back
into space,
negative
emissions
ideas are also
deeply
controversial,
potentially
propping up
carbon
capitalism,
making
sweeping
changes to
land-use and
posing
significant
environmental
risks. This
panel seeks to
explore the
politics of
these
prospective
negative
emissions
technologies
and what they
imply for our
changing
relationship
with nature in
the age of the
Anthropocene.
We ask: what
political
imaginaries
and interests
are
co-produced
with negative
emissions
ideas in
climate
models,
experiments
and policies?
How might
research,
development
and deployment
of carbon
removal be
governed
responsibly
where power
relations and
socio-technical systems are co-evolving? </span><span class=""><span class="">What
are the
implications
for power,
knowledge and
politics of
(discursive)
decoupling of
carbon removal
from other
forms of
geoengineering?
</span></span><span class="">How
does negative
emissions
politics
compare to
other
technoscientific
politics? What
should our
roles as STS
scholars be
when engaging
with negative
emissions?</span><span class=""><span style="background:yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%" class="">
<br class="">
</span></span><span class=""><span style="background:yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%" class=""><br class="">
</span></span><span class="">To
submit a paper
please go to
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