<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">If you use the char your self or can sell for money it is not a joke. <br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 1:48 PM, lh cheng <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lhkind@gmail.com" target="_blank">lhkind@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">as for the "<span style="font-size:14px">making char with cooking stove is a joke</span>"，“<span style="font-size:14px">the difficulty of char making of cook stove </span><span style="font-size:14px">is for economic reason</span>”，it is not about TLUD specially, it include all type of cook stove, not about energy physical or chemical, it is about "<span style="color:rgb(84,84,84);line-height:18.2px">Transaction Costs", it require social capital, a valuable network. This network and infrastructure is so valuable that diamonds can't compare with it. but, if we have diamonds, why we play with char? </span><div> </div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-27 9:22 GMT+08:00 lh cheng <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lhkind@gmail.com" target="_blank">lhkind@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">thank you Todd for your explanation. cooking in China is a long time task, very long, if we say half of a day, it won't be too exaggerating.<div>Safety is so important in stove design. and kids like to play with mom around stove. Chinese like stove to be heavy, immovable/stable, no gas emission into house.and no surprising situation, safe all the time for all kinds of fuel. </div></div><div class="m_1894718307056765263HOEnZb"><div class="m_1894718307056765263h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-26 22:32 GMT+08:00 Todd Albi <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:todd.r.albi@gmail.com" target="_blank">todd.r.albi@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Il Cheng:<div><br></div><div>Cooking is generally a short duration activity, so we use Pyroceram (heat resistant glass), in only our stoves that cook and<i> heat</i>. Pyroceram is registered to Corning from 1950 and adds considerable cost to stove design. Lots of Chinese TLUDs and biomass boilers use glass to see fire. I have seen interesting designs with pipes inserted into stove with viewing port on the exterior of the stove, in addition to fuel feed doors. These designs are used where the heat is offset to avoid cost of more expensive treated glass. I have a Griswold #160-B Bolo oven from 1920 that you set on top of small household stoves, fire pit grills, or older wood cookstoves to bake. Interestingly, the hinges on the oven door have round site glasses to view fire, at the base of each oven hinge. So lots of interesting ways have been used to add glass to stoves, but not important for short duration cooking in our opinion.</div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_jbnq6mo10_16093383eba1d999" style="margin-right:0px"></div><div><img src="cid:ii_jbnq86rg1_16093395bf706c81" width="472" height="354"><br>Regards, Todd Albi, SilverFire<br><br></div></div><div class="m_1894718307056765263m_8802882793940939231HOEnZb"><div class="m_1894718307056765263m_8802882793940939231h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 12:23 AM, lh cheng <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lhkind@gmail.com" target="_blank">lhkind@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Thank you Todd,<div>The cases you mentioned is good, outdoor use, when indoor,then long chimney directing exhaust gas to outside of house. That's nice.</div><div>Glass should be included in the stove, that would be even better, no black box burning.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-26 10:45 GMT+08:00 Todd Albi <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:todd.r.albi@gmail.com" target="_blank">todd.r.albi@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Ih Cheng:<div><br></div><div>There are large numbers of TLUDs available with chimneys that work great indoors (if venting emissions out doors). I just returned from Puerto Rico's Southeast coast distributing donated SilverFire Hunter stoves (chimney TLUD), that numerous cooks that loss homes and belongings to Hurricane Maria (<i>winds to 282 KMH</i>). These folks were delighted due to lack of smoke. The only other option was to spend $300 USD per month for gas that they did not have. Free biomass was available everywhere after Irma, Jose, & Maria. Stove burning in all photos below. In addition to loosing roofs & belongings, 2 meters of seawater ran through both bottom properties.</div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_jbn0zexd0_16090b262558f3b2" width="472" height="354"><br><img src="cid:ii_jbn101ja1_16090b2d5355854c" width="250" height="320"><br><img src="cid:ii_jbn10fx02_16090b31f040bdfb" width="207" height="320"><br><img src="cid:ii_jbn10xcw3_16090b3773227ce2" width="472" height="354"><br>Regards, Todd Albi SilverFire<br></div></div><div class="m_1894718307056765263m_8802882793940939231m_8405728426069459476m_-5313457095696860008HOEnZb"><div class="m_1894718307056765263m_8802882793940939231m_8405728426069459476m_-5313457095696860008h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 6:29 PM, lh cheng <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lhkind@gmail.com" target="_blank">lhkind@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">TLUD stove is useless inside house, every housewife should avoid it like avoid a bomb, and making char with cooking stove is a joke. It will never spread.<div>maybe I will explain it later. It is very clear to me.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy holiday every dear stover <br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-25 10:11 GMT+08:00 lh cheng <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lhkind@gmail.com" target="_blank">lhkind@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Crispin, <div>that is a minor problem, I know the answer. thank you for your introduction about Franklin stove, I am a little surprised by this man, and curious about this stove. </div></div><div class="m_1894718307056765263m_8802882793940939231m_8405728426069459476m_-5313457095696860008m_8596173629940891828m_-5611555924428581451HOEnZb"><div class="m_1894718307056765263m_8802882793940939231m_8405728426069459476m_-5313457095696860008m_8596173629940891828m_-5611555924428581451h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-25 10:03 GMT+08:00 Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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Dear LH</div>
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That is the theory, but like aluminum, if the processing involves a huge amount of energy, you are buying energy with a little glass thrown in. </div>
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Even expensive material is really the cost of the energy needed to get it. Unless there is a patent. Good cancer medicine is $350 per pill. One per day for five year$.</div>
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Regards </div>
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Crispin </div>
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<div><b>From: </b>lh cheng</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, December 24, 2017 20:40</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div>
<div><b>Reply To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] GLASS for stoves .</div>
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<div dir="ltr">the free material won't change the downside price trend if widely used. on the contrary, it speed up that trend. because widely using make price nearer to marginal cost, which is near zero, when the material is free. Every HI-Tech product have
the same trend, like CPU, cell phone, mainly made from sand. Because the number of users diluted the initial R&D and equipment investment, which is the main cost.<br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2017-12-24 18:02 GMT+08:00 Andrew Heggie <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:aj.heggie@gmail.com" target="_blank">aj.heggie@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On 24 December 2017 at 01:51, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Shoes in North America and Europe often have a large glass front window because fires are social. 'firelight' and all that. </div>
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<div>Yes that's my feeling too <br>
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In Africa people are nervous and uncomfortable if they have a stove without a visible fire. In Namibia we had to ensure the cooking stove had a visible fire or the San people wouldn't use it. </div>
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<div>They won't be keen on electric cooking then?</div>
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The cost of the glass is in the preparation and production. The materials are nearly free so I think the cost will remain high. Unless there is a miracle formulation. </div>
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<div>I'd guess this is so, normal glass is just silica sand and a bit of lime to decrease the fusion temperature.</div>
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<div>Borosilicate glass, Pyrex brand here in UK , has a much higher melting point so more expensive, also lower coefficient of expansion, so shock heating or cooling don't build up internal stress.</div>
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<div>I don't know what ceramic glass is nor why ordinary glass is not considered a ceramic.<br>
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