<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Andrew and list:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. A few days ago I tried to follow this story, which starts at Crispin’s site as <a href="http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/library/Papers+Articles/Chakrabarti, H/BIOMASS GASIFICATION Hirendra 2013.pdf" class="">http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/library/Papers+Articles/Chakrabarti,%20H/BIOMASS%20GASIFICATION%20Hirendra%202013.pdf</a></div><div class=""><div class="">and is also found at <a href="http://www.cmpdi.co.in/mineTech.php" class="">http://www.cmpdi.co.in/mineTech.php</a>. But I couldn’t find a way there to get to this particular article. Pperhaps Crispin can tell us if there is a repository for “Minetech”. CMDPI stands for <span style="font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Central Mine Planning & Design Institute Limited, and is a subsidiary of an Indian government owned profit making firm.</span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. “Minetech” is an in-house quarterly - primarily dealing with the coal industry in India, through the coal (not a trade) organization CMPDI. I think it safe to say they rarely publish on biomass. But I’d like to see what else might have been published by “minetech” of this type. And to learn more about Dr. Chakrabarti.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3. From Crispin’s site we read (my added emphasis):</div><div class=""><i class="">Pyrolysis/ Distillation of Biomass: The gas leaving the oxidation reduction zone at a temperature of about 550- 700oC <b class=""><u class="">passes through the dry biomass</u></b> distilling it into three products namely <u class=""><b class="">biochar,</b></u> tar & watery substance called Pyrolignious liquid & gases containing Carbon dioxide, Carbon monoxide, Hydrogen, methane, little quantity of oxygen, Nitrogen etc. In this zone the <b class=""><u class="">temperature is reduced</u></b> to about 300 to 350oC. </i></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4. Re the first emphasized words: “<b style="font-style: italic; text-decoration: underline;" class="">passes through the dry biomass”</b> - this is clearly referring to something totally different from a TLUD. I hope Crispin can describe what geometry is being described here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>5. I can believe that gases leaving any char go down in temperature, but in TLUDs there is nowhere near this much decrease to 300-350C. Looking in is usually a bright red charcoal - not “<i class="">dry biomass”</i>.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>6. I am in agreement with Andrew below that ‘distillation” doesn’t make sense with TLUDs - but there certainly are commercial operations with biomass where the term “distillation” makes sense - and maybe even with char production - but I am unaware of any stove application where that has been attempted.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thoughts?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 6, 2018, at 4:37 PM, Andrew Heggie <<a href="mailto:aj.heggie@gmail.com" class="">aj.heggie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">On 6 January 2018 at 21:39, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br class=""><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">The evidence from the distillation of biomass to produce liquids and gases shows that there is a conversion of biomass to CO2. Paul asks if the C is completely separated from the OH. It probably does now and then but it is not material. If it happens the heat is lost then regained, lost again and regained as the chemistry rapidly changes. What we do know is that in the end, there is only a net heat released from the biomass at 360C, and that the rest of the time the chemical changes leading to the gaseous products are energy-neutral. This of course is in the absence of air.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Crispin as you are the only one to use the term "distillation" in this<br class="">way I wonder if your gasifier expert is a native English speaker?<br class=""><br class="">Too my mind distillation applies to the creation of a vapour and its<br class="">subsequent condensation, either in a simple condenser or a<br class="">fractionating column, to a purified liquid. In TLUDs we produce a<br class="">pyrolysis offgas that is a mixture of gases and vapours with maybe a n<br class="">aerosol of solid particles. This is then subsequently burned in a<br class="">secondary flame so no condensate is recovered.<br class=""><br class="">We have known of the exothermic part of pyrolysis for years, Tom Reed<br class="">mentioned it 20 years ago, but does the heat at 360C amount to less or<br class="">more than that necessary to raise the dry wood from ambient to 360C?<br class=""><br class="">Andrew<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>