<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Crispin and List:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Apologies to all. I’m rushing this in hopes this dialog can be part of the ETHOS discussions that start in a few hours.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 26, 2018, at 9:08 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Dear Ron<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">One small correction:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">“</span>All the protocols mentioned below already do boil water.”</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Not all the test below boil water. IS 13152, the Indian national test, does not boil water, it heats water. The SeTAR HTP efficiency test, now adopted as the ISO lab test, has no requirement to boil water and almost always does not. Heating and pot-swapping gives far more accurate results than a boiling test. Remember, the Indian test was written after a careful review of the WBT, correcting many of its obvious flaws.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL1: I consider this so similar to the others as to keep the name WBT. My two objections - a) lots of extra work for little gain; b) doesn’t look at all like normal cooking. I think there are good reasons this is not a preferred approach. Not to say it is wrong. My preference for simplicity is to record the maximum amount of water that can be boiled away - char-making or not. Very simple to compare with and without char making. But it doesn’t help with tiers as they are now configured (and I think they are OK as is.)</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">There is no need to boil water to estimate how long it would take to do so. Pure math. Requiring, as the WBT does, that a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">certain</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mass be boiled, sometimes leads to ridiculous results.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL2: I disagree that you can come within even one Tier by simply looking at a stove - there is much more involved than “pure math” - but I’d love to see your rationale in print - with emphasis on some examples of “ridiculous results”.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">I do not know why you are insisting that the ISO is enthusiastic about the any particular thing. </span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL3: I didn’t say anything about “ISO”. I said that those experts (not me at all) in WG2 overwhelming supported the present draft - while in Katmandu. Do you have different intelligence?</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">People sometimes hold their nose and abstain from voting. Sometimes they vote yes to end the pain of participation. Sometimes they vote yes because the package is tolerable or misunderstood. Sometimes things are put in over the objections of 90% of the experts. Surely you are aware of that.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL4: No I am not aware of anything like that. Sorry you have had those experiences. I have heard nothing to say that has occurred with WG2. Have you?</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">The ISO cooking stove standard is voluntary. The ISO has no power to apply it to anyone or anything. Just as I pointed out before, there is no such thing as an “ISO certificate” for stoves (or anything else). That is not their function.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL5. Agreed totally. We agree on this one thing - but this has never been in dispute.</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>But there will also be a Tier system coming out of the WG2 efforts - that cannot be ignored - that I support and believe will help generate better stoves. Please comment on the Tier part of this story (independent of the next and char). It is my understanding that this voluntary approach is unique within the ISO process - needed because simple cookstove certification is so complicated (at present). Maybe later something more draconian.</b></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Your comment about a tier and a ‘char making stove’: You know full well the rating is for the consumption of fuel “sourced outside the system” (if you would bother to read the definitions). A char making stove’s need for fuel can be larger than an open fire – the usual baseline for CDM projects.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL6: Yup there probably can be such lousy char-making stoves. But the ones I have seen data on can use less fuel and still make 25% char (by weight). How about a cite for the char-making stoves you have seen that bad? The ones reported on for this list certain are not like yours. (Thinking Dr. Winter and Bangladesh most recently - who will be at ETHOS).</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">A typical value for the open fire fuel consumption is 1100 g to being 5 litres to a boil (10% efficiency, 3% evaporated). The Quad II is a TLUD char making micro-gasifier. It was tested at the CREEC Laboratory and the results made public by Paul Anderson, the designer. It was loaded with 16% moisture fuel and consumed 1964 g of it, producing 185g of char, per load. The dry fuel input was 1650 g, about 50% more than an open fire. The WBT reports that it uses 626 g of fuel.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL7: I’ll let Paul comment on this part and the next. It would have helped if you gave a cite for this report.</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Lest there be any doubt, here is the relevant section of the report:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <img apple-inline="yes" id="1021FC15-31E6-41E7-88C3-E3B622919EA1" height="88" width="341" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image003.jpg@01D39702.B75EABC0" class=""></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Note that it does not say ‘dry fuel equivalent’. The correct thermal efficiency is 19% but it reports it to be 42% (average of three tests). Obviously the low power efficiency is meaningless as is the specific fuel consumption number. (Zhang 2014).</span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL8: Sorry for the small print in the “quote” - it might open larger if clicked. I have no idea why “Zhang 2014” is given here. I think I have read that - and doubt it talked at length about a “Quad II”</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>You obviously still don’t understand the “Denominator Equation”. It is not giving the efficiency during the test. It is reporting what would have been the efficiency if no charcoal had been produced.</b></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">What clearer evidence could there be that the WBT lies about the fuel needed to replicate the test sequence? If I have a stove that needs 50% more fuel to run than an open fire and I report that it uses 43% less,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">it is a lie</i></b>!</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL9: It is NOT a lie. You simply don’t understand that if you are going to have Tiers, that char-making stoves need to be (for some users - and can be) comparable. I am not alone in this belief. WG2 approves this equation. You disparage a lot of very bright people - in fact I believe every college professor at CSU, U Wash, Berkeley are using this equation. I’m sorry you didn’t respond to any of my points in my previous message - but I’d like your thoughts on my equation that the right equation for tIer purposes is e3 = 1/(1+i/e1), where 1= e1+e2+i .</b></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">If you want to report that it uses 1650 dry grams of fuel and produces 200 g of char. Be my guest.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL10: Not sure what you are doing - but this 200 gm sounds on the low side. My testing would have given more than 400 gm of char (25% by weight). You are reporting on an inferior char-making product, I guess. I have no idea why you would think that 200 grams of char is too much, if you start with 1650.</b></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> If the ISO test is applied in some manner so that stoves consuming<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">more than the baseline</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>are claimed to need 40% less fuel, then the whole drafting exercise will be rendered worthless. If there is some sneaky way to claim that a stove needs 38% of the fuel it actually needs, then “the experts’, including you as a participant in WG4, have failed in their duty to provide a useful Standard.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL11: I would have looked up a cite if there is one - so now I have no way of knowing what you are talking about. Maybe Paul or someone else? Again, I repeat - you are saying the “denominator equation” is doing something it is not intended for. It is using the actual amount of fuel that could have gone into cooking or water boiling. The energy in the char obviously could not have done any cooking/water boiling - so it logically must be subtracted out.</b></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">If you don’t think you have a duty to prevent misrepresentation and fraud, think again. </span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL12: I am trying throughout this response to exercise my duty to prevent fraud. Don’t have to think about it.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">A stove that consumes more fuel than the baseline but delivers multiple benefits can be advertised exactly as that. To demand that a Quad II using 1650 g of dry fuel be placed in a fuel consumption comparison metric (fuel efficiency) beside those that use 500 or 600 is untenable.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL13: I know it is hard for you to believe that some may prefer to make char with cooking as a co-benefit (in every way) - but that is what is so wonderful about char-making stoves. Remember this char is a good bit more valuable than the starting biomass. I doubt from your other numbers that this Quad II is a good representative of that char-making stove family.</b><br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">If your stove does something clever, say so. No cheating about how much fuel is needed to do it.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL14: It is in no way cheating to use the “denominator equation”. You continue to display a lack of understanding of the equation (which is I repeat totally endorsed by WG2.).</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">It is quite possible the WBT mathematics to produce claims for a pair of stoves that are together over 100% efficient. That violates certain thermodynamic laws. Violation it for one stove is not permissible either.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL15: This set of sentences makes no sense at all. I have never seen anyone generate a result for any stove with >100%. Your cite for this is?</b></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Ron, why don’t you propose a new tier for char making stoves that reflects reality instead of trying to get high consumption stoves rated on the same scale? Pick a task, report the fuel consumption, report the char produced as a % of fuel mass, and report the energy in the char as a % of fuel energy. Then you won’t be embarrassed year after year for claiming that a stove that uses 50% more fuel than the baseline uses 40% less.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL16: I see absolutely no reason to do what you request; I am perfectly pleased to keep the results coming out of the WG2 exercise. I would like to see a rationale on why your suggestion would be helpful to users of the Tier system. If they don’t want char, just don’t buy a stove that tries to do that well (and is cleaner and more time saving). If saving time, having better emissions, and making money while cooking is not important - don’t buy such a stove. If taking carbon out of the atmosphere via biochar is not needed in your opinion - don’t buy such a stove. Nothing about the Tier system is mandatory.</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Re picking a task - I am delighted with the existing one in the WBT coming out in the WG2 report. Everything you suggest doing is already being done to my satisfaction. I assure you I am not embarassed by anything I see coming out of the ISO process. Sorry that you apparently are.</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>And again, I hope you will supply a cite for your numbers. Kirk Harris will be glad to report the details of his Tier 4 ratings - which bear no resemblance to yours (and his from two labs).</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br class=""></b><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Note to Paul Anderson: You asked for a specific example of a TLUD char maker that uses more fuel than the baseline. The example (you have the files already) is your Quad II tested in CREEC in Uganda, Aug 2012.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL17: I assume we will see more on this Quad II stove and test before ETHOS is over? Your continuing reference to it hasn’t advanced the dialog at all. One example doesn’t prove anything at all.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div><b class="">Ron</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Regards<br class="">Crispin<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Zhang 2014: “KEY DIFFERENCES OF PERFORMANCE TEST PROTOCOLS FOR HOUSEHOLD BIOMASS COOKSTOVES”, (<a href="http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=6827753" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">here</a>)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Yixiang Zhang, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott, Zongxi Zhang, Hongyan Ding, Yuguang Zhou, Renjie Dong</span><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">List and Xavier:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On Jan 25, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Xavier Brandao <<a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">xav.brandao@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Dear Ron,</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">« </span></i></span><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">a. What are some characteristics of the new test you propose to replace the WBT? »</span></i><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">What do you mean by characteristics?</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL1: </b>By “characteristics” I mean a serious difference in the test procedure from what is now going through (with strong support) the ISO process. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>All the protocols mentioned below already do boil water. What many protocols that you laud don’t do is make any attempt to even measure char produced. It is ludicrous to tell a stove producer who is marketing a char-making stove (which happens also to be cleaner and more efficient even ignoring char - with high Tier rating in all categories) that you’re sorry - but the approved stove protocol for that country says you must ignore all char when you calculate a Tier.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Possible replacements of the WBT are the CSI and HTP, protocols to be found here:</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fdrive%2Ffolders%2F0B5rmmRmIsdlnQlRQX3A1cXVOQ3M%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=vIK%2Byffm1MyfaUesPpT0RFyX5cuFoTwVMu%2F99%2Ff3Xkk%3D&reserved=0" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5rmmRmIsdlnQlRQX3A1cXVOQ3M?usp=sharing</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>[<b class="">RWL2: I don’t believe that either the CSI or HTP approaches (both from South Africa) says anything about measuring (and accounting for) charcoal production at this above site. I found one reference to the fact that charcoal should be treated as unusable. I also found evidence that Crispin made a change (or a recommendation) involving charcoal in 2013 - but the documentation you suggest his so inferior to that I have seen from WG2 that it is pathetic. </b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><b class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><b class="">So as near as I can tell, char production is not considered in either the CSI or HTP methodologies; if so, can you give a specific reference (page and line).</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><b class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><b class="">For sure the Chinese and Indian test methods do not.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I think the protocol documents are quite detailed. What is not clear in the document, what clarifications would you like to have?</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL3: They are in WG2 outputs - much less in everything else I have seen.</b> <b class="">I want a clarification on how charcoal is to be handled in your preferred test methodology. Especially as it relates to Tiers.</b><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">« </span></i></span><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">b. What happens to the Tier system that is now based on the WBT? »</span></i><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The Tier system is also put into question. I guess there will be a need for a replacement.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL4 Remember the Tier approach was unanimously (I think) recommended at the Lima meeting. What do you (or anyone) find fault with about Tiers? You are proposing to drop a main reason there is an ISO process at all.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">There is one question: is a Tier system absolutely necessary?</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL5: Clearly “No" - not absolutely necessary. But very helpful to achieving better stoves - I think the answer is a clear yes. And your answer to this question is what?</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Why do we need a Tier system for?</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL6: To achieve better stoves. (I’d go further and say so stoves can help take carbon out of the atmosphere. Not agreed to by some on your list.)</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Can we develop better stoves without it, or not?</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL7: I think the evidence is strong that Tiers are helpful. Kirk Harris says they are. This is a very complicated topic and we need a shorthand.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><b class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><b class="">Groups who want to and can buy stoves - are using the tiers. Tiers are easy to understand.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">If it is indispensable, then the Tier system must mean something, it must be reliable.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL8: The vast majority of the experts working in WG2 of the ISO285 process are telling us that it is reliable. </b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><b class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><b class="">You are not giving any rationale for dropping them - but it seems clear you are opposed to them.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">« </span></i></span><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">c. Assuming that this comes up at the ETHOS meeting starting tomorrow - how would you recommend GACC handling that vote, if there is one? »</span></i><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I would recommend that the GACC discuss openly and transparently this question, and that the participants give their opinion.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL9: Good - agreed. I hope this comes up for serious discussion at ETHOS and someone can report back on the discussion (and any “vote” if there is one). I am claiming here that you have enrolled a very small subset of test experts. I am predicting an overwhelming favorable discussion - and that GACC should heed that discussion.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I would recommend everyone to read the studies and the alternative protocols, first. If no one knows what the problem is about, it is difficult to talk about solutions.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL10: I would urge that GACC make no moves of any kind until they and we can see what WG2 has come up with - and the objections that remain. I am sure there will be some who disparage the “denominator equation”: e3 = e1/(1-e2) = 1/(1+i/e1) have not understood why it is imperative to use it (and especially to get Tiers). </b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><b class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><b class="">I have put a fair amount of time into this - and willingly admit I have no idea “what the problem is about”. It IS very clear that some think the “denominator equation” is dead wrong - and there are some who can’t stand Tiers.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Then the participants could express what are their needs in terms of testing,—-</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL11: The needs seem clear to me - to compare stoves - so as to effectuate improvement. (and the WBT and Tiers have been successful in that.)</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">and what they think are their potential difficulties in transitioning from the WBT to other lab protocols.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL12: Again - no new method has been proposed that I know of. Years have been spent in a horribly tedious process dictated by ISO rules. So without something specific to consider, in the presence of strong support for the WG2 output - it seems clear to me that there are huge “<i class="">potential difficulties in transitioning”</i>. Time is wasting - and we don’t have time</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">As I<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>said previously, I don’t think there are many difficulties in making this transition.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL13: And you also said you have not been involved in the (I think) successful WG2 effort.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">And if some participants want to work towards the development of new and better protocols, more adapted to their needs, then that should be encouraged too.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL14: Absolutely - and ISO processes say how that can be done. But it makes zero sense to stop when you are almost done (on the key - WG2 - portion), with something that has received wide approval. I repeat, your group, from my knowledge (mostly at ETHOS meetings and stove camps, but also as the first coordinator of this list), is in a small minority.</b><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">« </span></i></span><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">d. What is your response to an observation that this appears to be a reaction against char-making stoves? »</span></i><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Who makes this observation?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL15: For one - me. I see no-one promoting char-making stoves on your list.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><br class=""><br class=""></b><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">This call is not a reaction against any technology. As far as I am concerned, I have nothing against char-making stoves, much on the contrary. I think Moulindu Banerjee project in North-East India is a formidable success story.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Char-making stoves will survive the end of the WBT.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL16: Sure, but you are calling to restart a 5 year process. We don’t have time for such non-sense.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">If there is a need for a new ways/protocols to measure their benefits, then we should foster such work.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">[RWL17: That is already embedded in what you are calling to start over. A huge amount of work has gone into the WG2 report that we will soon see. I see very good work coming along from the other groups as well - but they are not WBT oriented</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Ron<br class=""><br class=""></b><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Best,</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class="">Xavier</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">De :</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">De la part de</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Ronal W. Larson<br class=""><b class="">Envoyé :</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>jeudi 25 janvier 2018 22:59<br class=""><b class="">À :</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass<br class=""><b class="">Objet :</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] A call to stop using the WBT</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Xavier, list and ccs<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Four questions:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">a. What are some characteristics of the new test you propose to replace the WBT? <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">b. What happens to the Tier system that is now based on the WBT?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">c. Assuming that this comes up at the ETHOS meeting starting tomorrow - how would you recommend GACC handling that vote, if there is one?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">d. What is your response to an observation that this appears to be a reaction against char-making stoves?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Ron<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Jan 25, 2018, at 8:24 AM, Xavier Brandao <<a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">xav.brandao@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Dear Anh, dear Michael,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Thank you for your comments.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I feel that sentence in the call is not clear. Of course, we are not talking about punishing those who are currently using the WBT in their projects, nor taking away stoves that have been developed with WBT, and are or have been disseminated.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Funders have funded projects which testing protocol basis was the WBT, stoves have been developed, fine. There are, still, despite the WBT mess, good stoves and good projects that were developed. Certainly, as we discussed previously, a lot of potential has been wasted because of unreliable results. But past is past.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Now, funders and donors are preparing new grants and programmes. Today, there is no excuse that a project or programme success depends upon a testing protocol that was at multiple times demonstrated erroneous and unreliable. This shouldn't happen anymore.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We cannot fund projects anymore based on a protocol which is, literally, a roll of the dice.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Does that sound reasonable to you? If not, why?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Thanks again,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Xavier<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellspacing="3" cellpadding="0" style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(211, 212, 222); border-top-width: 1pt;"><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td width="55" style="width: 41.25pt; border: none; padding: 13.5pt 0.75pt 0.75pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fsig-email%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Dwebmail&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=POhbfVyR4q26%2FtRBlclW2bfPQa7yz2oE2jdJmywYZUw%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple; text-decoration: none;" class=""><img border="0" width="46" height="29" id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" style="width: 0.4833in; height: 0.3in;" class=""></span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></td><td width="470" style="width: 352.5pt; border: none; padding: 12.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 13.5pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(65, 66, 78);" class="">Garanti sans virus.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fsig-email%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Dwebmail&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=POhbfVyR4q26%2FtRBlclW2bfPQa7yz2oE2jdJmywYZUw%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(68, 83, 234);" class="">www.avast.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On 25 January 2018 at 09:25, Michael N Trevor <<a href="mailto:mntrevor@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">mntrevor@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">In the middle of the Pacific with what are they going to do come take away my stoves?</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I dare you to try it---</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 8:07 PM, Anh Nguyen <<a href="mailto:ntanh72@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">ntanh72@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="m3181277400843652485m-6586048575355672055gmail-fontstyle0"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">You said in your call "</span></span><span class="m3181277400843652485m-6586048575355672055gmail-fontstyle2"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">as well as stop funding or supporting projects, programmes and companies who use the WBT". S</span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">o in your view, everyone who use WBT should be punished regardless of what good they are doing for the world? <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Sorry, I can not and will not support such call.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Anh<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Tom Miles <<a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">tmiles@trmiles.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Dear everyone,</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I would like to share with you this call, which is the continuation of the initiative that was addressed to the GACC.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So a few of us have decided to make a call to the stakeholders of the stove sector, to stop using the WBT, and to use and develop scientifically valid protocols instead.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Please find the documents of the call attached.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Please find below the list of the call signees:</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Adam Creighton, Independent consultant</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Ashiq Ahamed, Senior Project Manager, TIDE</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Camilla Fulland, Senior Adviser and former CEO of Prime Stoves, Norad</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Cecil Cook, Independent expert, Stove anthropologist</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Crispin Pemberton-Piggott, Adjunct Professor, China Agricultural University</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Harold Annegarn, South Africa Adjunct Professor, North West University</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Jan-Carel Diehl, Assistant Professor - Design for Sustainability, Delft University</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Jiddu Broersma, Technology Officer, Prakti</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Jorund Buen, CEO, Prime Stoves</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Miel Alanna, Independent consultant</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Mouhsine Serrar, CEO, Prakti</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Nikhil Desai, Independant expert</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Nithya Ramanathan, CEO, NexLeaf</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Partha Talukder, Business Manager, Prakti</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Paul Medwell, Associate Professor, University of Adelaide</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Peter Scott, CEO, Burn Manufacturing<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Robert J van der Plas, Independent expert, University of Adelaide</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Sujatha Srinivasan, Director, Servals</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Todd Albi, General Manager, Silver Fire</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Vahid Jahangiri, Deputy Director, ILF</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Wouter Kersten, Co-ordinator Context Variation by Design</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Xavier Brandao, Independent</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li></ul><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">If you have comments, questions, remarks about this call, don’t hesitate to react.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">If you believe this is important, join us! And contribute to a much needed change in stove testing and research.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Thanks!</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Xavier</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:Xvr.brandao@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">Xvr.brandao@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=0rBKSikLwSzbQRu3%2BppehwrLot4PGos9zUQ7A6XhpwI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=RXpHaxaEjACHH9X0%2FIQ88QhisJQj%2FiQEghsD5CR7M8I%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=0rBKSikLwSzbQRu3%2BppehwrLot4PGos9zUQ7A6XhpwI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=RXpHaxaEjACHH9X0%2FIQ88QhisJQj%2FiQEghsD5CR7M8I%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=0rBKSikLwSzbQRu3%2BppehwrLot4PGos9zUQ7A6XhpwI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=RXpHaxaEjACHH9X0%2FIQ88QhisJQj%2FiQEghsD5CR7M8I%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=0rBKSikLwSzbQRu3%2BppehwrLot4PGos9zUQ7A6XhpwI%3D&reserved=0" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class=""><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099214531&sdata=RXpHaxaEjACHH9X0%2FIQ88QhisJQj%2FiQEghsD5CR7M8I%3D&reserved=0" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""></span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""></span><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099370796&sdata=ZqcVqwP3wDShBxqYleIn%2B%2B3lL7vhl%2Bu74Yxp7OLDm6Q%3D&reserved=0" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class=""></span><a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf27feb02aff147b06e1108d5645d090c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636525273099370796&sdata=kX2mnFDaWbOJ0vg%2BIWaQsp6kYNL%2B5KI2UAsRtvROgdg%3D&reserved=0" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Stoves mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>