<div dir="ltr">So now by removing all char, would it be miss-leading too, in another direction?<div><br></div><div>Also, by removing all char produced, it will obviously devalue all char making stoves, although the original intention might not be anti char-making stoves, the result is clearly unfavorable.</div><div><br></div><div>Anh<br></div><div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:55 PM, <a href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" target="_blank">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">None of this addresses the documented failures of the WBT. However, it is true other protocols do not consider charcoal. WG2 was supposed to develop measures of "usable char" and failed to do so. Instead it assumes all char is usable, which is misleading. Philip<br><br>Sent from my Huawei Mobile<div class="m_-8943365421248616397quote" style="line-height:1.5"><br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] A call to stop using the WBT<br>From: "Ronal W. Larson" <u></u><br>To: Discussion of biomass <u></u>,Xavier Brandao <u></u><br>CC: <br><br><br type="attribution"><blockquote class="m_-8943365421248616397quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">List and Xavier:<div><br></div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jan 25, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Xavier Brandao <<a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com" target="_blank">xav.brandao@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear Ron,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"><i>« </i></span><i>a. What are some characteristics of the new test you propose to replace the WBT? »<u></u><u></u></i></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">What do you mean by characteristics?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL1: </b>By “characteristics” I mean a serious difference in the test procedure from what is now going through (with strong support) the ISO process. </div><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>All the protocols mentioned below already do boil water. What many protocols that you laud don’t do is make any attempt to even measure char produced. It is ludicrous to tell a stove producer who is marketing a char-making stove (which happens also to be cleaner and more efficient even ignoring char - with high Tier rating in all categories) that you’re sorry - but the approved stove protocol for that country says you must ignore all char when you calculate a Tier.</div><div><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span></div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Possible replacements of the WBT are the CSI and HTP, protocols to be found here:<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5rmmRmIsdlnQlRQX3A1cXVOQ3M?usp=sharing" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://drive.google.com/<wbr>drive/folders/<wbr>0B5rmmRmIsdlnQlRQX3A1cXVOQ3M?<wbr>usp=sharing</span></a></span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>[<b>RWL2: I don’t believe that either the CSI or HTP approaches (both from South Africa) says anything about measuring (and accounting for) charcoal production at this above site. I found one reference to the fact that charcoal should be treated as unusable. I also found evidence that Crispin made a change (or a recommendation) involving charcoal in 2013 - but the documentation you suggest his so inferior to that I have seen from WG2 that it is pathetic. </b></div><div><b><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>So as near as I can tell, char production is not considered in either the CSI or HTP methodologies; if so, can you give a specific reference (page and line).</b></div><div><b><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>For sure the Chinese and Indian test methods do not.</b></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I think the protocol documents are quite detailed. What is not clear in the document, what clarifications would you like to have?</span></div></div></blockquote></div><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL3: They are in WG2 outputs - much less in everything else I have seen.</b> <b>I want a clarification on how charcoal is to be handled in your preferred test methodology. Especially as it relates to Tiers.</b><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"><i>« </i></span><i>b. What happens to the Tier system that is now based on the WBT? »<u></u><u></u></i></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The Tier system is also put into question. I guess there will be a need for a replacement.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL4 Remember the Tier approach was unanimously (I think) recommended at the Lima meeting. What do you (or anyone) find fault with about Tiers? You are proposing to drop a main reason there is an ISO process at all.</b></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">There is one question: is a Tier system absolutely necessary? </span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL5: Clearly “No" - not absolutely necessary. But very helpful to achieving better stoves - I think the answer is a clear yes. And your answer to this question is what?</b></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Why do we need a Tier system for?</span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL6: To achieve better stoves. (I’d go further and say so stoves can help take carbon out of the atmosphere. Not agreed to by some on your list.)</b></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> Can we develop better stoves without it, or not?</span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL7: I think the evidence is strong that Tiers are helpful. Kirk Harris says they are. This is a very complicated topic and we need a shorthand.</b></div><div><b><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Groups who want to and can buy stoves - are using the tiers. Tiers are easy to understand.</b></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If it is indispensable, then the Tier system must mean something, it must be reliable.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL8: The vast majority of the experts working in WG2 of the ISO285 process are telling us that it is reliable. </b></div><div><b><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>You are not giving any rationale for dropping them - but it seems clear you are opposed to them.</b></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"><i>« </i></span><i>c. Assuming that this comes up at the ETHOS meeting starting tomorrow - how would you recommend GACC handling that vote, if there is one? »<u></u><u></u></i></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I would recommend that the GACC discuss openly and transparently this question, and that the participants give their opinion.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL9: Good - agreed. I hope this comes up for serious discussion at ETHOS and someone can report back on the discussion (and any “vote” if there is one). I am claiming here that you have enrolled a very small subset of test experts. I am predicting an overwhelming favorable discussion - and that GACC should heed that discussion.</b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I would recommend everyone to read the studies and the alternative protocols, first. If no one knows what the problem is about, it is difficult to talk about solutions.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL10: I would urge that GACC make no moves of any kind until they and we can see what WG2 has come up with - and the objections that remain. I am sure there will be some who disparage the “denominator equation”: e3 = e1/(1-e2) = 1/(1+i/e1) have not understood why it is imperative to use it (and especially to get Tiers). </b></div><div><b><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I have put a fair amount of time into this - and willingly admit I have no idea “what the problem is about”. It IS very clear that some think the “denominator equation” is dead wrong - and there are some who can’t stand Tiers.</b></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Then the participants could express what are their needs in terms of testing,—-</span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL11: The needs seem clear to me - to compare stoves - so as to effectuate improvement. (and the WBT and Tiers have been successful in that.)</b></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">and what they think are their potential difficulties in transitioning from the WBT to other lab protocols.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL12: Again - no new method has been proposed that I know of. Years have been spent in a horribly tedious process dictated by ISO rules. So without something specific to consider, in the presence of strong support for the WG2 output - it seems clear to me that there are huge “<i>potential difficulties in transitioning”</i>. Time is wasting - and we don’t have time</b></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> As I <span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>said previously, I don’t think there are many difficulties in making this transition.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL13: And you also said you have not been involved in the (I think) successful WG2 effort.</b></div></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">And if some participants want to work towards the development of new and better protocols, more adapted to their needs, then that should be encouraged too.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL14: Absolutely - and ISO processes say how that can be done. But it makes zero sense to stop when you are almost done (on the key - WG2 - portion), with something that has received wide approval. I repeat, your group, from my knowledge (mostly at ETHOS meetings and stove camps, but also as the first coordinator of this list), is in a small minority.</b><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"><i>« </i></span><i>d. What is your response to an observation that this appears to be a reaction against char-making stoves? »<u></u><u></u></i></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Who makes this observation? </span></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL15: For one - me. I see no-one promoting char-making stoves on your list.</b></div><div><b><br></b><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">This call is not a reaction against any technology. As far as I am concerned, I have nothing against char-making stoves, much on the contrary. I think Moulindu Banerjee project in North-East India is a formidable success story.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Char-making stoves will survive the end of the WBT. </span></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL16: Sure, but you are calling to restart a 5 year process. We don’t have time for such non-sense.</b></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If there is a need for a new ways/protocols to measure their benefits, then we should foster such work.</span></div></div></blockquote><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL17: That is already embedded in what you are calling to start over. A huge amount of work has gone into the WG2 report that we will soon see. I see very good work coming along from the other groups as well - but they are not WBT oriented</b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div><b>Ron<br></b><blockquote type="cite"><div class="m_-8943365421248616397Section1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>Xavier<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.<wbr>bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>De la part de</b><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span>Ronal W. Larson<br><b>Envoyé :</b><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span>jeudi 25 janvier 2018 22:59<br><b>À :</b><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass<br><b>Objet :</b><span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] A call to stop using the WBT<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Xavier, list and ccs<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"> <span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Four questions:<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"> <span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>a. What are some characteristics of the new test you propose to replace the WBT? <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"> <span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"> <span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>b. What happens to the Tier system that is now based on the WBT?<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"> <span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>c. Assuming that this comes up at the ETHOS meeting starting tomorrow - how would you recommend GACC handling that vote, if there is one?<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397apple-tab-span"> <span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>d. What is your response to an observation that this appears to be a reaction against char-making stoves?<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Ron<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite"><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">On Jan 25, 2018, at 8:24 AM, Xavier Brandao <<a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">xav.brandao@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Dear Anh, dear Michael,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Thank you for your comments.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">I feel that sentence in the call is not clear. Of course, we are not talking about punishing those who are currently using the WBT in their projects, nor taking away stoves that have been developed with WBT, and are or have been disseminated.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Funders have funded projects which testing protocol basis was the WBT, stoves have been developed, fine. There are, still, despite the WBT mess, good stoves and good projects that were developed. Certainly, as we discussed previously, a lot of potential has been wasted because of unreliable results. But past is past.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Now, funders and donors are preparing new grants and programmes. Today, there is no excuse that a project or programme success depends upon a testing protocol that was at multiple times demonstrated erroneous and unreliable. This shouldn't happen anymore.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">We cannot fund projects anymore based on a protocol which is, literally, a roll of the dice.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Does that sound reasonable to you? If not, why?<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Thanks again,<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Xavier<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div></div><div id="m_-8943365421248616397DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><table class="m_-8943365421248616397MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellpadding="0" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(211,212,222);border-top-width:1pt"><tbody><tr><td width="55" style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:13.5pt 0.75pt 0.75pt"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="46" height="29" id="m_-8943365421248616397_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"></span></a><u></u><u></u></div></td><td width="470" style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:12.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(65,66,78)">Garanti sans virus.<span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(68,83,234)">www.avast.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">On 25 January 2018 at 09:25, Michael N Trevor <<a href="mailto:mntrevor@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mntrevor@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div><div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:18pt">In the middle of the Pacific with what are they going to do come take away my stoves?<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:18pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:18pt">I dare you to try it---<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 8:07 PM, Anh Nguyen <<a href="mailto:ntanh72@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">ntanh72@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="m_-8943365421248616397m3181277400843652485m-6586048575355672055gmail-fontstyle0">You said in your call "</span><span class="m_-8943365421248616397m3181277400843652485m-6586048575355672055gmail-fontstyle2">as well as stop funding or supporting projects, programmes and companies who use the WBT". S</span>o in your view, everyone who use WBT should be punished regardless of what good they are doing for the world? <u></u><u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Sorry, I can not and will not support such call.<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Anh<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Tom Miles <<a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">tmiles@trmiles.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div><div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Dear everyone,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">I would like to share with you this call, which is the continuation of the initiative that was addressed to the GACC.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">So a few of us have decided to make a call to the stakeholders of the stove sector, to stop using the WBT, and to use and develop scientifically valid protocols instead.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Please find the documents of the call attached.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Please find below the list of the call signees:<u></u><u></u></span></div><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom:0cm"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Adam Creighton, Independent consultant<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Ashiq Ahamed, Senior Project Manager, TIDE<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Camilla Fulland, Senior Adviser and former CEO of Prime Stoves, Norad<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Cecil Cook, Independent expert, Stove anthropologist<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Crispin Pemberton-Piggott, Adjunct Professor, China Agricultural University<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Harold Annegarn, South Africa Adjunct Professor, North West University<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Jan-Carel Diehl, Assistant Professor - Design for Sustainability, Delft University<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Jiddu Broersma, Technology Officer, Prakti<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Jorund Buen, CEO, Prime Stoves<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Miel Alanna, Independent consultant<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Mouhsine Serrar, CEO, Prakti<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Nikhil Desai, Independant expert<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Nithya Ramanathan, CEO, NexLeaf<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Partha Talukder, Business Manager, Prakti<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Paul Medwell, Associate Professor, University of Adelaide<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Peter Scott, CEO, Burn Manufacturing<span class="m_-8943365421248616397Apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Robert J van der Plas, Independent expert, University of Adelaide<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Sujatha Srinivasan, Director, Servals<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Todd Albi, General Manager, Silver Fire<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Vahid Jahangiri, Deputy Director, ILF<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Wouter Kersten, Co-ordinator Context Variation by Design<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Xavier Brandao, Independent<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">If you have comments, questions, remarks about this call, don’t hesitate to react.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">If you believe this is important, join us! And contribute to a much needed change in stove testing and research.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US">Xavier<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Xvr.brandao@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Xvr.brandao@gmail.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 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our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/</a><br><br><u></u><u></u></p></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" 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