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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear Xavier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It is clear Ron is not following the plot. I see no point in continuing to discuss the WBT with him. Please carry on with whatever your plan is to improve the success of stove projects.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ron: Xavier has been all along talking about the WBT. The published ISO DIS 19867-1 is a lab test that makes no reference to the WBT. It is you who have been insisting there is some relationship
between them because of some formula.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards to both of you<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ronal W. Larson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 29-Jan-18 07:17<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>; Xavier Brandao <xvr.brandao@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] A call to stop using the WBT<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Xavier and list, cc Philip<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span>You have a strong opinion on something you say you know nothing about. Give it time to get to you. Won’t be long. And check again with Crispin.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ron<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 28, 2018, at 3:50 PM, Xavier Brandao <<a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com">xav.brandao@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Dear Ron,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">That the WBT is still part of the ISO TC 285 is news to me. You seem to disagree with Crispin on that point.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I have no opinion on the TC 285, but I have one on the WBT, it needs to be scrapped.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">It needs to be scrapped now.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">« How about clarifying to GACC that your Jan 15 letter to GACC was NOT intended to impact their decision on this new version - of which they are a key part? »</span></i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">It is very much intended to impact any of their decision on protocols. The WBT, outside or inside of the TC 285, has to stop being used or promoted.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt">« I’ll wager they will have misunderstood you as much as did I. My guess is they will respond that they await your detailed criticism of this new version - which I think has passed all the needed ISO
hurdles. »</span></i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">They have never contacted me, for anything.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">If such a new version exists, I cannot criticize it. I cannot criticize what I do not know.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">If they want anything from me, I’d be most happy to discuss. I’m available anytime, always have been. They know how to reach me.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Best,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Xavier</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">De :</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Stoves
[<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style="color:purple">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>De la part de</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Ronal
W. Larson<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>dimanche 28 janvier 2018 22:48<br>
<b>À :</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass; Philip Lloyd<br>
<b>Objet :</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] A call to stop using the WBT</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Philip: cc list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The
new WBT coming out of TC 285 is alive and well - and the Tier system as well. The “grave” is not in sight.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On Jan 28, 2018, at 2:33 PM,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za"><span style="color:purple">plloyd@mweb.co.za</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Can we bury tiers in the same grave as the WBT?<br>
Philip<br>
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Sent from my Huawei Mobile<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] A call to stop using the WBT<br>
From: "Ronal W. Larson"<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
To: Xavier Brandao ,Discussion of biomass<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
CC:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Xavier:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Apologies
then. I had indeed assumed that you were in agreement with Crispin who even today has written about how bad the WBT is - and who has been part of the ongoing TC-285 work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You
now know my main interest in this dialog is protecting the Tier system - which is dependent totally on the WBT coming out of TC285 discussions (which are almost complete and endorsed by dozens of participants). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">How
about clarifying to GACC that your Jan 15 letter to GACC was NOT intended to impact their decision on this new version - of which they are a key part? You only need to say “</span><i><span style="color:#1F497D">I have no idea of what is happening at the WG2
nor the TC 285</span></i><i><span style="font-size:11.5pt;color:#1F497D">”</span></i><i><span style="color:#1F497D"> ). </span></i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">I’ll wager they will have misunderstood you as much as did I. My guess is they
will respond that they await your detailed criticism of this new version - which I think has passed all the needed ISO hurdles.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Ron <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On Jan 28, 2018, at 4:43 AM, Xavier Brandao <<a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple">xav.brandao@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Dear Ron,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Despite the best efforts of Xavier and Crispin to discredit the almost approved WG2 methodology</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I never said anything about the WG2 methodology, simply because I have no idea of what is happening at the WG2 nor the TC 285.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Best,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Xavier</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">De :</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Stoves
[<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style="color:purple">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>De la part de</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Ronal
W. Larson<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>dimanche 28 janvier 2018 00:00<br>
<b>À :</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass<br>
<b>Objet :</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] A call to stop using the WBT</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">List cc Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Being
mentioned 3 times, but charcoal and Tiers not being mentioned once, I respond below - with hopes that Crispin can understand the way charcoal numbers should be used in computing a Tier rating - which he (to repeat) he never specifically addresses (only alludes
to).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On Jan 27, 2018, at 9:14 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"><span style="color:purple">crispinpigott@outlook.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Dear Andrew</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Show me a cook who worries about the amount of energy released from a solid fuel when cooking, and not the amount of fuel. Just one. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL1:
I can agree that there are probably only a few such cooks. But none is probably also the number of real simple solid fuel cookstove users on this list. A better question for both cooks and list members is: “Show me a cook or list member who favors<span class="apple-converted-space"><u> </u></span><u>inefficient</u><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>stoves.
Just one”. The Tier system can be viewed as one about inefficiencies.</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I
start this with “inefficient” because it is the main point in the rest of this response. We focus on this list on e1 = (dimensionless) efficiency of heat transfer in the WBT and e2 = efficiency of making charcoal (roughly 1.7 times as energy important as
weight). We tend to ignore what is the most important if we want to increase either/both e1 or e2, since inefficiency, i = 1- e1- e2. Now the question that Crispin has trouble with is how should knowing e1 and e2 (and we know both with remarkable precision
through any of the WBT’s) give us the e3 needed by the Tier system?. I say remarkable, because I would be happy with 2 or 3% accuracy and repeatability - and the testers do better than that. The e3 answer for Tier purposes is below. Crispin has given no
equations for the alternative e3 numbers he cites below - only (inaccurate) assumptions of what I would say.<br>
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</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">After finding one, maybe it is Ron, ask if they want the actual energy released, or a vague, misrepresentative number. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL2:
Obviously rhetorical - who can want “<i>a vague, misrepresentative number”? <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></i>But NO - I would not be happy with only the “<i>actual energy released”. </i></span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Despite the best efforts of Xavier and Crispin to discredit the almost approved WG2 methodology, it seems virtually impossible for there to not be a continuation (probably
improved, maybe harder) of both an approved WBT and some type of Tier structure. What I want is more than “<i>actual energy released”. </i>I want the energy that could have been released if e2 (= percent energy in the char) were zero. That is what is the
existing protocol calls for and that I am trying to protect and justify below. </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></i></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">The amazing things about the WBT are the incompetence with which it was created and later, defended, and the effort put into not correcting it, but preserving it as a
monument to…what exactly?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL3:
None of that sentence is worth responding to.</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Ron doesn’t really want to preserve the WBT, he wants to rate stoves that have a fuel efficiency of 20% to be reported to be 40%.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL4:
It is useless for me (the culprit) to ask for a cite for this claim on what “<i>he wants</i>”. This is basically a statement that a Crispin doesn’t understand how to use e2. The largest possible number I have ever seen for e2 is 0.4, but lets call it 0.5.
In my experience, e2 is around .3. If you use either of the equations I have been repeating this week - (and is in the main WBT protocols and always has been) then e3 (the predicted efficiency if the stove could produce no char) would be e3 = e1/(1-e2)
Eq. 1</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">and e3 = 1/(1+i/e1) Eq. 2</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">To
use the second form, we need the inefficiency, </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">i
= 1 - e1 - e2 Eq.3 </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">and for Crispin’s claim of what I believe: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <span class="apple-tab-span"> </span><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>i =1-.2-.5 = .3 Eq.4 (for the “impossible” case) and </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">i
= 1-.2-.3 = .5 Eq. 5 (for “my” version of Crispin’s case).</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">So
if e2 is .5 (impossibly high) we would get for the Tier number, using Eq 4</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> e3
= 0.2/(1-.5) = .4 Eq. 6 (using Eq 1), and </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e3
= 1/(1+.3/.2) = 1/2.5 = .4. Eq. 7 (using Eq. 2)</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">So we see that Crispin attributes to me a 40% efficiency (without explaining how he got there) that is solely based on (the incorrect statement of) me claiming 50% efficiency
for char making - which I never have said and I have above said is not possible - even if e1 were zero.</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">For
completeness, I could/would not have stated that Crispin doesn’t understand the equation to be used for Tiers if he had used my preferred example inefficiency number of I = 0.5. Then instead of e3 = 0.4, he should have stated that I would expect (not “<i>want</i>”)
a Tier rating of:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e3
= 1/(1+i/e1) = 1/(1+.5/.2) = 1/3.5 = .29 Eq, 8 (a LONG way from his claim that I have been promoting 0.4)</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">That fuel efficiency metric will be used to calculate the reduction in the harvesting of unsustainably harvested forests by improved stoves accessing CDM funding.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL5:
Another sentence that is so illogical as to warrant another “no comment” as in [RWL3. </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">However
I have to say that the figure e3 now used in the Tiers is much more logical than this statement about his proposed “<i>fuel efficiency metric” (which is NOT an e3)</i>. </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">We
should be thinking both sustainably and unsustainably harvested forests. </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I
see no reason to suddenly bring “<i>CDM funding"</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>into this discussion</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">A stove that reduces fuel cutting by 1/2, Ron wants to be rated as reducing it by 3/4. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL6:
Hmm. How did Crispin come up with 3/4 (even if one can figure out what he means by that BIG reduction - meaning what is left must be 1-3/4-= 1/4). Before trying to figure that out, I need to remind the list that when I first introduced a char-making stove
design in November, 1995 (on a predecessor of this list) - there was no talk at all of biochar, only char . My intent solely was to save forests from the roughly 15% efficiency of making char (often illegally) in earth kilns.</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">So
my first interpretation of this strange sentence was that “it” meant “fuel cutting” - but that has already been defined as “1/2”.</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">So
starting with the first clause - which says some unidentified stove <i>“reduces fuel cutting by 1/2”</i> - so maybe he means e1’ (the value after using the new stove) is (e1)/2. (This still a guess, since Crispin feels no need for symbols.)</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Then
since the second clause refers to RWL - and I have been (incorrectly) advertised as believing in a doubling of e3 over e1 - I guess now that Crispin is saying here that </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">3/4
= 1 - (1/2)*(1/2). Eq. 9 - </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> I
don’ t know what set of symbols to give - so will ask Crispin to tell us what might refer to my symbols e1, e2, e3, and i )</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> This is indeed an identity. But I don’t want to be identified as recommending either “1/2” term - nor the equation that produces the “3/4” either.</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL7:<span class="apple-tab-span"> </span><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Let
me try to generate an RWL number equivalent to Crispin’s “3/4”. A pretty reasonable example is where </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e1
= e2 = i = 1/3, Eq 10 (assumption</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">then </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e3
= 1/2 Eq.11 (Readers - please check my e3, using both above two equations Eq. 1 and Eq. 2). </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> Note that this (overall) Tier efficiency e3 (when the stove produces no char) was decreased to 1/2 from the e1 +e2 value of 2/3. My e3 of 1/2 is not the claimed doubling
that Crispin claims (“claims” because he shows us no equations - only results).</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">So
the WG2 e3 value of 1/2 (if we ignore everything about char-making) is larger by 1/6 than the e1 value of 1/3. So the absolute largest % increase that I could be charged with (still ignoring the forest benefit of making char in a stove) is in the ratio (1/6)/(1/2)=
1/3 or (1/6)/(1/3) = 1/2 - depending on what you want use in the denominator. A non char-making stove requires 1/3 less cutting if one throws away the char (which Crispin apparently feels is likely). So Crispin’s 3/4 is obtained only with hand waving and
illogical and inaccurate assumptions </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL
8: We should also discuss why e3 should be this half-way value between e1=1/3 and the e1+e2 value of 2/3. Why should the stove without char-making not have an efficiency of the full 2/3? (Besides the fact that NO small stove ever gets an e1 that high.)
My belief is that it is in the way hydrogen is consumed in the char-making stove. The pyrolysis process is such that the produced char has a much smaller % H2 than any form of “raw” biomass. (And users of the char in soil want it that way.) So the pyrolysis
process is providential - we get what both e1 and e2 need to be. Stated another way, e2 has a higher energy content (about 30 MJ/kg) than the input biomass (about 18 MJ/kg). </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL9:
It might help to say a bit more using weights, assuming 1 kg of input with an initial energy of 18 MJ. If e2 is still 1/3 , then the char must have 6 MJ. An assumed energy density of 30 MJ/kg, means the char must weigh 6/30 = .2 kg. The energy density of
the gases going into e1 and i must then be (18-6)/.8 = 15 MJ/kg. Everything balances as we move to find the critical e3 (needed for the Tier computation). The making of char gave up hydrogen to get e1 as high as it was (1/3). When we assume no (char-made)
e2 (which was 1/3), then e3 can only jump (by 1/6) from 1/3 to 1/2. There was little H2 impact to give up as e2 went to zero in finding e3.</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(Note
- the actual energy densities in real WG2 reporting are different from these assumed values. But not much different - and the existing WBT instructions are good on how these are to be obtained (unlike some of the competing stove testing approaches.)</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Do you, Andrew, think that making such a misrepresentation of consumption would be mischievous, or fair, to the funder of the avoidance unsustainable deforestation?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">[RWL10:
A final rhetorical sentence also not needing comment, once one agrees there has been zero misrepresentation. </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <span class="apple-tab-span"> </span><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>But I write the above for others - not Crispin, whose opinion I expect to remain
unchanged by any of the above (I hope of course I am wrong - but I have tried to say most of this before).</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I’ll
not similarly ask Andrew - but do wonder how he will answer Crispin - with its mischaracterization of my values and methodology? </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Apologies for length here - obviously, I am trying to influence discussions at ETHOS.</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Ron</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Regards </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Crispin </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On 26 January 2018 at 10:51, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">crispinpigott@outlook.com</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Dear Anh</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Other than reporting the energy in the char and it's mass, what else should be reported?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The only thing that is needed is how much energy was released to do the task, establishing it is a bit troublesome as each species is different and moisture contents vary.
With other fuels it's simple, we can weigh a LPG cylinder before and after use and deduct one from the other to establish the fuel used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">I have never been asked how much energy a stove uses out of the fuel it consumes during the replication of some task. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">So the energy use isn't much relevant to the cook?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">People always ask how much fuel a stove needs to 'do something'.Misrepresenting the fuel needed from the available resource to complete a task is mischievous. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">We should not introduce mischief to our performance evaluations. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Stop being mischievous then ;-)<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
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to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
</span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
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