<div dir="ltr"><div>
"You asked Crispin and me, "<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">The important question: is it likely that air pollution kills, or shortens lives if you prefer, of people living in cities?</span> "<br>Yes. Air pollution kills."<br></div><div>Fantastic!</div><div>That's all I needed to know.</div><div><br></div><div>Now, what, according to you Nikhil, should we do with all the millions of dollars? Where should we invest them? Where should we put all our efforts?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Xavier<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 28 May 2018 at 18:07, Nikhil Desai <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Xavier: <br><br>You asked Crispin and me, "<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">The important question: is it likely that air pollution kills, or shortens lives if you prefer, of people living in cities?</span> "<br><br>Yes. Air pollution kills. Whom, when, where, and how, is a lucrative consulting business. Some victims of respiratory diseases suffer worsening of symptoms and death when air quality is in orange or red zone too long.<br><br><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Kirk Smith and WHO asserted that solid fuels pollute, by definition, and premature deaths are attributable to solid fuels. </span> That was not enough for consulting revenues, so HFC Guidelines and ISO TC-285 were generated, to concoct aDALYs from complete and irreversible abandonment of solid fuels. <br><br>The Church of 3G (GACC, Gold Standard, Goldman Sachs) saves. <br><br>Keep faith. In priests.<br><br>Nikhil<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_7095897184715686326m_-8908026225177612145gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>Nikhil Desai</font></div><span class=""><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(US +1) 202 568 5831</span><font face="georgia, serif"><br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i><br></font><br></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Xavier Brandao <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:xav.brandao@gmail.com" target="_blank">xav.brandao@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="FR">
<div class="m_7095897184715686326m_-8908026225177612145m_-8668140351136991385Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear Crispin,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks for your answer.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">”1m premature deaths contributed to by
things (in 51 categories) decided by a committee of experts is hardly the same
as pointing to a murder weapon that killed an individual.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Of course, it’s not. The latter is normally pretty easy to do.
The former is indeed, a very complex statistical construct.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">No one can tell for sure that air pollution is responsible of a
specific number like 7 143 568 deaths, or 7 million, it may be difficult
to even say “between 6 and 8 millions”.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">But I think even before we talk about attribution and
statistical construct by the WHO, we need to assess what might be the truth.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Because somewhere, there is a truth.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Let’s take Ulan Bator. There are 1.5 million inhabitants.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If all of them were using electrical heating and cooking, and
driving bicycles instead of cars:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_7095897184715686326m_-8908026225177612145m_-8668140351136991385MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">would we likely see less indoor and outdoor air pollution?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_7095897184715686326m_-8908026225177612145m_-8668140351136991385MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">would we likely see less cases of respiratory infections like
bronchitis, pneumonias, etc.?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_7095897184715686326m_-8908026225177612145m_-8668140351136991385MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">would the respiratory infections cases likely be less acute?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_7095897184715686326m_-8908026225177612145m_-8668140351136991385MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">would there likely be less cases of deaths due to a respiratory
infection?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_7095897184715686326m_-8908026225177612145m_-8668140351136991385MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">would the life expectancy of the population likely be higher?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Xavier<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Stoves
[mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.b<wbr>ioenergylists.org</a>] <b>De la part de</b> Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> dimanche 6 mai 2018 22:57<span><br>
<b>À :</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Stoves] Air pollution kills<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-CA">Dear
Xavier<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div class="m_7095897184715686326m_-8908026225177612145h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">The
difference between attribution of a contribution to a premature death and a
‘cause of death’ is that one is a statistical construct for a national
population and the other is medical cause of death. There is no common ground.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">1m
premature deaths contributed to by things (in 51 categories) decided by a
committee of experts is hardly the same as pointing to a murder weapon that
killed an individual.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">It
may be that no one at all is killed by air pollution – it is just one of a
number of contributions to medical conditions that one way or another, shorting
one’s life with complications and consequences. A person may die during an
asthma attack, and there may be air pollution around at the time. Is that
death caused by the air pollution, or the underlying condition of asthma? No
one knows what causes asthma. The cleaner the air in North America, the more
common asthma there is. Is cleaner air contributing to the shortening of
lives in North America? On the face of it, possibly.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Why
do very few children who have contact with farm animals develop asthma? Do farm
animals extend lives?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">The
problem is claims by organisations such as the WHO, again last week at the SE4ALL
meeting in Lisbon, that “indoor air pollution kills 4.3m people per year”. The
people making the claim know full well that it is actually asserted that IAP <i>has
been attributed to be a contributor</i> to the shortening of 4.3m lives per
year, not a ‘cause of death’ and they know that I know that they know. Yet they
persist in this exaggerated claim.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Why?
What is it they cannot achieve with the truth alone?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin, Nikhil,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The important question: is it likely that air pollution
kills, or shortens lives if you prefer, of people living in cities?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don’t know if the debate over the terms
« killing » or « shortening life » is very relevant.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">When someone shoots a 80-year old man, who was maybe meant
to live until 81 years old only, you could say the shooter is not a killer,
merely a life-shortener. If the shooter shoots a 12-month-old baby who was
meant to live 81 years old, you could also say he shortened the baby’s life by
80 years. The baby was meant to die one day anyways.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Should the shooter of the old man only get a small prison
sentence? After all, he only took 1 year from the old man’s life, maybe he only
took 6 months or 2 months.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Let’s admit that yes, life is dangerous and full of
uncertainties, and many factors have an impact on human’s health. But let’s
admit we would rather limitate the impact air pollution has on human health.
How likely is it that indoor air pollution has a large contribution to human
deaths? Outdoor air pollution?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Xavier<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div>
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