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I am forwarding this to the Stoves Listserv that did not receive a
copy of the two most recent messages below.<br>
<br>
Interesting information. I remember the earlier years of stove
testing (2005 to about 2010?) when the only official testing at
Stove Camp was with uniform cut kiln-dried fir. It reeked havoc on
the TLUD testing for several reasons. Now at least pellets are
included.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
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<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Subject:
</th>
<td>RE: [Stoves] Uganda Turns to Local Volcanic Rocks As
Substitute for Charcoal</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
<td>Wed, 13 Jun 2018 22:02:18 +0000</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">From: </th>
<td>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"><crispinpigott@outlook.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">To: </th>
<td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ndesai@alum.mit.edu">ndesai@alum.mit.edu</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ndesai@alum.mit.edu"><ndesai@alum.mit.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">CC: </th>
<td>Andrew Heggie <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:aj.heggie@gmail.com"><aj.heggie@gmail.com></a>, Cookswell
Jikos <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cookswelljikos@gmail.com"><cookswelljikos@gmail.com></a>, Paul Anderson
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"><psanders@ilstu.edu></a>, Cecil Cook
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com"><cec1863@gmail.com></a></td>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear
Nikhil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">“</span>I
still don't understand why stovers would want to standardize
fuel, pot, and power cycle in order to measure efficiencies
for boiling water.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">They
don’t and I am surprised you are repeatedly inferring that
they do. The whole point of the HPT is to explore how stoves
perform across a range of circumstances in order to
communicate to potential users and buyers what to expect. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The
threat to the WBT is exactly that: giving actual performance
potential across a heterogeneous set of circumstances.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As
for the stove below, the usefulness of the pumice is to
delay the combustion of the powder. What probably looks to
the novice as ‘retaining heat’ is in fact the slow burning
of carbon hiding in pores. In many cases people say a stove
‘holds a lot of heat’ at the end of a fire but in fact there
is continuing combustion of the remnant fuel (char) within
the ash. This is easily demonstrated in the case of burning
dung.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">This
stove sounds like a similar case. The rocks hold very little
heat as they have a very low mass. There is nothing special
about the elemental composition of the ricks. They hold very
little heat but they delay and extend the combustion of a
carbonaceous fuel. Good for them. It is one way to burn a
nearly useless fuel without making a briquette first.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The
reason the fan helps is to circulate air near the pores to
extract the carbon as CO and to maintain a hot enough burn
(above 800 C) to get the carbon to react with the available
oxygen and pull it out. The same process is involved in
burning carbon out of ceramics like bricks.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It
sounds like a good idea. The pumice is essentially a flame
retardant. The function of moisture in wood is similar. The
lower the moisture, the easier it is to burn clear, to about
12% by weight, Then it starts to be smokier until 0% is
reached at which time it is difficult to burn cleanly in a
conventional appliance.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The
big error in the Indian IS1352 is that the fuel is 100% dry
for all stoves and one has to tune the stove to the test
method. Fail to do that, you fail the test, as Envirofit
found to its chagrin.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Pass
the emissions test, and you fail in the field, and that is
the consequence of testing with a uniform fuel and pot,
supported by the GIS For 27 years so far. Indians are
inhaling the consequences.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Nikhil Desai <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com"><pienergy2008@gmail.com></a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 14, 2018 4:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"><crispinpigott@outlook.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Andrew Heggie <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:aj.heggie@gmail.com"><aj.heggie@gmail.com></a>;
Cookswell Jikos <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cookswelljikos@gmail.com"><cookswelljikos@gmail.com></a>; Paul
Anderson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"><psanders@ilstu.edu></a>; Cecil Cook
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com"><cec1863@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Uganda Turns to Local Volcanic
Rocks As Substitute for Charcoal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Powder offers more surface and
quicker burn, correct? Not always what is desired,
whatever the damned computations. You sound just as
número-nutty as IHME; parading penis as promise of
performance. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The key here is heat storage and
transfer. But not because it improves fuel efficiency.
Rather, powder fuel and heat storage are combined in
such a manner that is ideal to heat a cooking pan for, I
imagine, grilling chicken. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We aren't told if it is grilling
chicken or if it is only that. Maybe the story is fake.
Maybe device is good for stews and rice as well. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Do you think it makes any difference
that broiling or grilling a chicken allows the food item
itself to retain heat and cook itself? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am sure there are many variants of
this idea of heat storage via rocks and pots. In
particular, I remember large-scale cooking for
festivities in my village. This was done on wood burnt
in a hole in the ground, or some permanent structure
with bricks. Large copper utensils were used and mud
wrapped around the bottom and halfway to the sides. That
was for heat storage. <br>
<br>
Another variant was for baking on a charcoal stove. The
pan was heavy and charcoal placed on both the stove as
well as the lid. The pan and the lid stored heat and
cooked. <br>
<br>
Coming to think of it, all pots are for storing heat,
aren't they? <br>
<br>
I still don't understand why stovers would want to
standardize fuel, pot, and power cycle in order to
measure efficiencies for boiling water. Except for the
destitute, there is so much variety in cooking, such
standardization in testing is the looniest exercise that
could be imagined. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just make a variety of stoves and
produce charts of this kind or that, and sell to the
cooks, not silly stove theorists. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nikhil <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jun 13, 2018, at 12:00 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
like the idea of being able to burn powder on a
substrate. I will try it with coal dust.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
calculation of thermal performance and fuel
efficiency is straight forward.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
with the masterpieces!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><image001.jpg><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US">
Nikhil Desai <<a
href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 13, 2018 10:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>;
Andrew Heggie <<a
href="mailto:aj.heggie@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aj.heggie@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Cookswell Jikos <<a
href="mailto:cookswelljikos@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">cookswelljikos@gmail.com</a>>;
Paul Anderson <<a
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>;
Cecil Cook <<a href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">cec1863@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Uganda Turns to Local
Volcanic Rocks As Substitute for Charcoal</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">What
it says is that thermal storage improves the
efficiency of cooking chicken.<br>
<br>
"<span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Like
regular charcoal, these rocks are stacked in the
stove and charcoal dust is spread liberally atop
them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m4496719164108806782gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Twigs
of pine or any highly flammable species are then
inserted in the middle of the rocks and lit with
a match."</span><br>
<br>
The dust and twigs are the primary combustibles.
The way they are set, with the size and location
of the rocks and the chicken, is all it takes to
cook.<br>
<br>
So much for your theology of heating water and
computation of efficiency. <br>
<br>
A stove is to cook something in the time required
and at times desired. Nothing else. Get off your
"performance standards". To hell with scientists.<br>
<br>
N<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br
clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Nikhil Desai</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">(US
+1) 202 568
5831</span><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><br>
<i>Skype:
nikhildesai888</i></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott <<a
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="color:#1F497D">It sounds like
they are confusing the word 'heat'
with 'burn. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="color:#1F497D">It is a solar
thermal storage cooker from the sound
of it. Has anyone seen one?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="color:#1F497D">Crispin </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="m4496719164108806782m-6932252139091053965gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.01)">
<span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Hello
everyone, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="m4496719164108806782m-6932252139091053965gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.01)">
<span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="m4496719164108806782m-6932252139091053965gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.01)">
<span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Would
anyone know more about exactly
what type of rocks these area? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="m4496719164108806782m-6932252139091053965gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.01)">
<i><span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">''Ms
Twine said the rocks only work
in the solar-powered Eco
Stove, which comes with an
internal air supply system
that helps heat up the rocks.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="m4496719164108806782m-6932252139091053965gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.01)">
<i><span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">The
stove is also fitted with an
on-off switch that enables the
rocks to burn when turned on,
and cool and return to their
natural state when turned off.
The stove comes with a radio,
phone charger and has two
lights.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="m4496719164108806782m-6932252139091053965gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.01)">
<i><span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Unlike
charcoal which burns down to
ash, these rocks can be used
multiple times without losing
their power or texture.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="m4496719164108806782m-6932252139091053965gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.01)">
<i><span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Domestic
stoves retail at Ush200,000
($53) together with the rocks
while a "bag" of the rocks
alone sells for Ush35,000 ($9)
for domestic use and can last
up to six months.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="m4496719164108806782m-6932252139091053965gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.01)">
<i><span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Ms
Twine says since the stove
does not emit smoke, those
using it are protected from
indoor pollution.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="m4496719164108806782m-6932252139091053965gmail-story-body-text"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.01)">
<i><span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">"They
[rocks] do not produce smoke,
burn for a long time and you
do not need charcoal anymore,"
she adds</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial
Narrow",sans-serif">Teddy Kinyanjui</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial
Narrow",sans-serif">Sustainability Director</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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style="width:2.0833in;height:1.0416in"
id="m_4496719164108806782_x005f_x0000_i1025"
src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3YUMG1TTODQ/Wh6o8gWfRmI/AAAAAAAAAyw/1bp5qqpvmwQwg5JXqL7hz-OLGSx5nSEXgCK8BGAs/s512/TK%2BEmail%2BLogo.jpg"
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<br>
<a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%252F%26data%3D02%257C01%257C%257C4bbe8e7f133b4162090908d5d13d7b11%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%257C1%257C0%257C636644984337425712%26sdata%3Da%252BwFXFFZxzAaRvko7YLZe18BLwxOAKY%252F6uOLldqGU78%253D%26reserved%3D0&data=02%7C01%7C%7C704ca169a02f43449dbf08d5d1686b5a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636645168757818281&sdata=LrIJBaqcPZFu6pYKtUdjC6B%2BpSOv720pxTUWo115mbU%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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