<div dir="ltr">Paul,<div>In calm air one could assess the effective gap with a hot wire anemometer moved slowly in from the pails edge.</div><div>Perhaps even with a smoking stick...hmmm.</div><div><br></div><div>Alex</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Alex,<br>
<br>
What is shown in the photos certainly does and should work. But
what your initial message described (as I interpreted it) was
something different, but precisely how different I do not
remember. The 1 mm gap??? Or that the primary air was moving
downward INSIDE the large-diamter fuel chamber (as if there were no
holes for primary air to enter at the bottom? I do not remember,
and I am not making an issue of this.<br>
<br>
Primary air is able to go down the outside of a fuel chamber to
reach the primary air inlet holes at the bottom of a TLUD stove.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="m_-8920934694517242723moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="m_-8920934694517242723moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="m_-8920934694517242723moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="m_-8920934694517242723moz-cite-prefix">On 6/17/2018 4:23 PM, alex english
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi <span id="m_-8920934694517242723:1ek.1">Stovies</span>,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This relates to Paul's doubts that all the air can come in
the top of a <span id="m_-8920934694517242723:1ek.2">TLUD</span>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I took two off the shelf items and with no alterations and
made a serviceable stove for wood pellet fuel . I placed a
stainless holey cutlery strainer on a shim in the bottom of a
small stainless milk pail. The strainer is 4 5/8 inches in
diameter and 5 inches tall. The top was about 3/4 of an inch
below the top of the pail. Half filled with pellets, which
leaves the pellets 3.5 inches the below the pot. Top lit, it
burned for about 45 minutes with all the air coming in from
the top. The migrating front headed 'south' predictably. A
little ash formed around the edges. Good flame stability.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is basically a one speed device unless you manipulate
the fuel profile. </div>
<div>The pot position, size and shape is a factor as the exhaust
and air pass by each other in close proximity going in
opposite directions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A pretty simple stove. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 8:39 AM, Paul
Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Alex (and
others)<br>
<br>
You wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
That primary air can be introduced above the fuel with
the secondary air<br>
and drop down and spread out below the<br>
pyrolysis front.<br>
</blockquote>
I would certainly like to see this demonstrated (visible)
or supported by scientific measurements. Frankly, I have my
doubts, especially if it is less than 20 cm (8 inches) in
diameter..<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br>
On 3/29/2018 5:40 AM, Andrew Heggie wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 29 March 2018 at 01:32, alex english <<a href="mailto:aenglish444@gmail.com" target="_blank">aenglish444@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Andrew,<br>
If you are curious you can 'freeze' theTLUD process at
any point by setting<br>
the a TLUD in a pan of water that shuts off the air and
wicks water into the<br>
raw pellets in the bottom of the fuel chamber. They will
swell and wick all<br>
the way up to the Migrating Pyrolysis Front . The
Torrefied layer and the<br>
char above will not swell. A careful excavation of the
fuel will reveal all.<br>
When I did this with the 18 inch diameter chamber I
found a horizontal<br>
layer of an inch, or a bit less, of pellets in
transition from raw pellet<br>
to torrified pellet to charred pellet.<br>
</blockquote>
Thanks again Alex it's an interesting experiment but I'm
quite happy<br>
to take your word for the horizontal MPF.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Misting the outside of the stove<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
will can also give clear impression of a planar descent
of the MPF.<br>
</blockquote>
I never did much with pellets as I felt they were not a
likely fuel<br>
compared with stickwood and so not representative of most
users In UK<br>
I find them too expensive compared with other fuels.<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
With very dry fuel like wood pellet very little primary
air is required.<br>
That primary air can be introduced above the fuel with
the secondary air<br>
and drop down and spread out below the<br>
pyrolysis front. If introduced tangentially the cooler
fresh air<br>
centrifuges to the outside edge of a round chamber and
the flame tornados up<br>
the middle. A layer of fresh air one millimeter thick
descending around the<br>
edge of a fuel chamber would be enough. Not a lot of
control but this<br>
resembles what many people have used this sort in other
contexts. With<br>
fussy fuel quality and placement it behaves in the
steady top down way that<br>
a TLUD does with a little extra char burning.<br>
</blockquote>
Yes I made many such vortex burners in my experiments, the
largest<br>
being 4foot diameter but I supplied all the air from above
and<br>
inevitably to excess.<br>
<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
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