<div dir="ltr">Paul:<br><br>Monies were made, deliverables have met the contractual obligations. <br><br>Nikhil</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------</font></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><font face="georgia, serif">Nikhil Desai</font></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(US +1) 202 568 5831</span><font face="georgia, serif"><br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 9:29 PM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Stovers,<br>
<br>
To have a copy of those standards will cost US$200. That is a good
way to NOT have the workers in the trenches gain easy access.<br>
<br>
Let's hope that the people at the testing centers get copies and
inform us of what is applicable. (I suppose that they will purchase
the document, or have some grantor make copies available). I hope
that they will spend the time to educate others.<br>
<br>
Did you ever notice that the GACC does NOT send any informative
messages (and certainly not any controversial discussion messages)
to the Stoves Listserv. The GACC makes posts at its website and
expects to have the items read there. I thank Nikhil for bringing
this document to our attention.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="m_5481873584504793897moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="m_5481873584504793897moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="m_5481873584504793897moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre><div><div class="h5">
<div class="m_5481873584504793897moz-cite-prefix">On 6/24/2018 12:44 PM, Nikhil Desai
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Crispin:<br>
<br>
I meant it is time for EPA/WHO/UNF to celebrate, that
"international" flimflam went from Lima to IWA to ISO 19867-1
2018.<br>
<br>
Regulator? What regulator? Gimme a break. Product standards
agencies regulate commerce, not indoor air quality nor cooking.
(For instance, clothes washers; think of all attributes the user
needs or wants, and what a washing machine standard does.
Standard for detergent is separate, and quality of water is yet
another. It is presumed that the user hast clothes and water.
Here, there ought to be no presumption that every user has same
food ingredients in quality or quantity for every meal, or that
somebody has fuel standards and indoor air quality standards).<br>
<br>
This may be a "first step" to you. But without a contextual
performance standard, all this Tier-ing is simply gearing toward
more deception. Eating hash rather than smoking it. <br>
<br>
That experts at ISO may be woke is no reason for me to get up
and celebrate. Dope induces various layers of sleep. All that
this document promises is "
<span style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">customization
in reporting, while still maintaining harmonization in testing
to compare products.</span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"> "</span>
<br>
<br>
I don't know a valid theory of change in use of solid fuel
cookstoves that lab testing of theoretically usable stoves has
to "maintain harmonization", just customize reporting. <br>
<br>
If at all, I prefer your idea of reporting tests graphically
rather than by a single number. <br>
<br>
I don't think WBT is dead yet. Check with CDM and Gold
Standard. <br>
<br>
Even your hope for replicability in and across labs is
misplaced. It is the actual use that matters. <br>
<br>
The lesson that is yet to be learned is that only stoves that
are usable and actually used merit lab testing in the first
place. Otherwise carts will be piled in front of dead horses. <br>
<br>
And usability and performance depend on "<span style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">specific
cohorts of users experiencing local conditions."<br>
</span>
<br>
Next step -- morphology of "specific cohorts of users" and of
"local conditions". Say, for 300 million out of 3 billion
people. <br>
<br>
I ain't woke. Blacked out from head punches. (See <a href="https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/columns/straight-dope/article/13039270/straight-dope-the-physics-of-punching-someone-in-the-face" target="_blank">https://www.<wbr>washingtoncitypaper.com/<wbr>columns/straight-dope/article/<wbr>13039270/straight-dope-the-<wbr>physics-of-punching-someone-<wbr>in-the-face</a>.
Getting heat and temperature right for different foods is more
important than computing efficiencies and emissions per minute.)<br>
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Nikhil Desai</font></div>
<div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(US
+1) 202 568
5831</span><font face="georgia,
serif"><br>
<i>Skype:
nikhildesai888</i><br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 12:34 PM,
Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div class="m_5481873584504793897gmail-m_-5659711790113470189WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dear Nikhil</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I seems the
core message got through – without considering
the context, the worth of a stove test is
questionable for regulatory purposes.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Where the
evaluation is directly relevant to the expected
patterns of use, the assessment has value to a
regulator.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The question
of context is even more critical for program
managers and policy makers because they are
invariably focused on specific cohorts of users
experiencing local conditions.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The next
challenge is to see if the test method can
produce replicable results, first within one
laboratory and then between them. As the test
method is not testing apparatus-agnostic, the
effort to adapt the Standard to a national one
will in many cases require adapting the text to
suit existing and broadly accepted, but
significantly different practice. Reputations
are earned, not given, so let’s have a go at the
test and see what we get.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The WBT is
dead. Long live something else.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Regards<span class="m_5481873584504793897gmail-HOEnZb"></span></span></p>
<span class="m_5481873584504793897gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Crispin</span></p>
</font></span>
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<div class="m_5481873584504793897gmail-h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I can remember the joy
when my writing was first published. <br>
<br>
Whether or not it did any good to anybody,
the feeling is relief, excitement, bubbling
head.<br>
<br>
" <span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">A
key learning was the need to better
reflect local context and practices, and
the newly published document allows for
customization in reporting, while still
maintaining harmonization in testing to
compare products.</span> "<br>
<br>
I wonder if experts are finally woke. <br>
<br>
Mucho moolahs dangling on the trees. <br>
<br>
Nikhil<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcleancookstoves.org%2Fabout%2Fnews%2F06-21-2018-first-ever-international-standard-for-laboratory-testing-of-cookstoves-published.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb0d89b0f9684e0c0b7108d5d9e81a21%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636654513243590369&sdata=oVNJ4K%2FYFnDbW3oUmR%2BdpW503Vq3j2a9JsvKgmRtV2E%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">http://cleancookstoves.org/abo<wbr>ut/news/06-21-2018-first-ever-<wbr>international-standard-for-<wbr>laboratory-testing-of-cookstov<wbr>es-published.html</a></p>
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<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">The
International Organization for
Standardization (ISO) has published the
first international <a href="https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fstandard%2F66519.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb0d89b0f9684e0c0b7108d5d9e81a21%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636654513243590369&sdata=%2B6kId61zQbh7eWgMLitGvg%2B29paLsRwYx3QGA81gjoQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><b><span style="color:rgb(38,125,132);text-decoration:none">standard for
laboratory testing</span></b></a> of
cookstoves. Developed and approved by
international experts from 45 countries,
the new standard includes protocols to
test and report the emissions,
efficiency, safety and durability of
cookstoves in a lab setting.</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">"Standards
play a critical role in virtually every
industry, delivering transformative
impact on safety and performance," said
Sally Seitz, co-Secretariat of ISO
Technical Committee 285 (ISO TC 285) and
senior program manager at the American
National Standards Institute. "With the
publication of this standard, the clean
cooking sector is poised to make
significant strides toward better
products and ultimately, toward improved
outcomes for consumers who use them.”</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">The
standard, which replaces an ISO
International Workshop Agreement from
2012, is expected to serve as the basis
for national policies and programs on
cookstoves, while also incentivizing
manufacturers and developers to improve
stove quality and performance. An
accompanying ISO <a href="https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fstandard%2F73935.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb0d89b0f9684e0c0b7108d5d9e81a21%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636654513243746620&sdata=ipKO8%2Bf%2BpXMDE1V8RRBRdEnGYY4nh20%2BjbV%2FbwB0wAI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><b><span style="color:rgb(38,125,132);text-decoration:none">technical report</span></b></a> that
benchmarks performance to voluntary
performance targets, or tiers, and
provides guidance on how to understand
and interpret lab test results was also
approved by member countries of the ISO
Committee and will soon be published.</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">Development
of the standard, which was supported by
the Alliance, was informed by learnings
about the advantages and limitations of
previous protocols, as well as the
latest sector research. A key learning
was the need to better reflect local
context and practices, and the newly
published document allows for
customization in reporting, while still
maintaining harmonization in testing to
compare products.</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">“The
cooperation and dedication of experts
from around the world has yielded the
standard,” said Richard Ebong, convener
of the ISO TC 285 lab testing working
group and manager of legal metrology at
the Ugandan National Bureau of
Standards. “The responsibility is now
with national standards organizations
and other stakeholders to carry this
forward in our countries. I shall do all
that's within my powers to promote the
standard.”</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">This
voluntary document provides a framework
for organizations, countries and regions
to adapt and implement the protocols,
metrics, and targets based on their
priorities over the coming months and
years. ISO standards are reviewed and
updated regularly, so these standards
can be updated based on future research
and on the progress in the cookstove and
fuel market.</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">ISO
TC 285 also published a <a href="https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fobp%2Fui%2F%23iso%3Astd%3Aiso%3Atr%3A21276%3Aed-1%3Av1%3Aen&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb0d89b0f9684e0c0b7108d5d9e81a21%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636654513243746620&sdata=mwObQH%2BZnS%2FSB3NgAy%2B9Ml38L%2FaeIdLvBp69%2F%2F20Mno%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><b><span style="color:rgb(38,125,132);text-decoration:none">technical report</span></b></a> in
May that provides harmonized definitions
to key terms and concepts used within
the sector. In addition, the ISO TC 285
has also been developing guidance on
field testing, and it is currently open
for ballot at the draft international
standard phase. If approved, it is
expected to reach the final phase of
development in late 2018 or early 2019.</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(97,97,97)">For
additional information about the lab
standard and voluntary performance
targets technical report, and how they
might impact your organization and work,
please review <a href="https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcleancookstoves.org%2Fresources%2F556.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb0d89b0f9684e0c0b7108d5d9e81a21%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636654513243746620&sdata=ePa4v3Scu0JQDoM%2FZvh2BJpjZlblm4cuElhYnb1FIfQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><b><span style="color:rgb(38,125,132);text-decoration:none">FAQs here</span></b></a>.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>
Nikhil Desai</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Georgia,serif">(US
+1) 202 568
5831</span><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif"><br>
<i>Skype:
nikhildesai888</i></span></p>
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