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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>All,</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I am supportive of Dr. Anderson’s position. The TLUD stove is amazing. Its potential is even more amazing. It is capable of fulfilling many of the cooking needs of those who have solid biofuel available to them, and doing it with very little hassle and destructive emissions. To me it makes more sense to build upon a good idea, like the TLUD, then to spend years arguing about testing systems. This especially for tests which have more to do with the cooking vessel than with the stove itself. The well designed TLUD stove will test well no mater what test is used, and will provide steady heat for any cook’s cooking vessel, water in a pot, soup or stew in a pot, frying in a frying pan, stir frying in a wok, making tortillas on a plancha, baking in an oven, or whatever vessel is being used. Plus it can extract CO<sub>2</sub> from the atmosphere.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I began working on the TLUD type stove when I learned about the technique from Dr. Anderson, Dr. Larson, and Dean Still at an Aprovecho stove camp, and saw what potential it has. Even if nothing I have done is ever used to benefit anyone (though I would rather that it was), I am happy with my time working on this type of stove and with what I have learned about it and about the combustion of biofuels in general. Also, I have met a lot of wonderful people during this time.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Kirk H.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul Anderson</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, July 13, 2018 5:37 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Must reed: Re: [stove] ProPublica article out</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Xavier, (Note: This and many stove messages by Paul Anderson are placed at the Posts section of <a href="http://www.drtlud.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>www.drtlud.com</span></a> ).<br><br>What you wrote (below) could be correct in many ways. But I say (like a broken record, over and over again) that the TLUD micro-gasifier stoves do already exist and are shown to do the job for clean cooking and to be acceptable by the people and to be financially favorable (as shown in the West Bengal area with 40,000 households.) But without the scale-up funding for the West Bengal methodology, the progressive expansion to more houses is quite slow.<br><br>The TLUD success story is regardless or in spite of the WBT issues.. <br><br>The problem of the non-TLUD stoves is that they really are NOT good enough to meet the expectations and requirements of the people. Fixing the testing methods is not going to fix those issues. Better testing would then become a call for another round of trying to get sticks to burn, when in fact the TLUD stoves are quite cleanly burning Pyrolytic BioGas (PBG) (or woodgas or pyro-gas) that the stove makes from the biomass. <br><br>There are a few of us who keep working on the TLUD stoves. But the work is not about showing that PBG in a TLUD stove burns cleanly. We know that it does. Certainly there can be improvements (such as by the work of Kirk Harris). But my TLUD stove efforts now are about scale-up and finacial support (that can be repaid!!!). <br><br>And now the battles are becoming harder because of:<br>1. The reporting of the non-success of the regular (non-gasifier) stoves,<br>2. Bad publicity for the GACC (being called another failure of cookstove efforts)<br>3. Constant bickering about testing methods <br>4. The "glorification" of LPG for cookstoves for impoverished people, but LPG cannot reach even 50% of the world-wide need.<br><br>I am still optimistic that TLUD stoves will eventually get the attention they deserve, and to be dis-associated from the stick burners. And then to receive the support to scale-up level by level in an expanding list of countries. Bring on the pellet fuels, and the fan-assisted TLUDs, and the non-wood (agro-refuse) fuels, and the carbon credit benefits, and even the possible adoption of TLUD stoves by the promoters of the failing stick-burners (They are fully welcomed). For TLUD stoves, the future is still very bright, but it could be brighter without the haze/fog/smoke of the non-successful stoves.<br><br>Paul<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072</pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On 7/13/2018 5:05 AM, Xavier Brandao wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Paul,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks for sharing this very good paper.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>It brings a good reflection upon all those years. Yet it still didn’t answer the question: why didn’t it work?</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Because the improved cookstoves were not adopted. But why?</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The stoves were not adopted because they were not good enough. The problem is not a problem of adoption, of customers. The stoves were, and still are the problem. If the first Iphone was 3000 USD, with an autonomy of 20 minutes, and very slow when navigating, no one would have bought it -> back to the R&D and engineering department, try again and better.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>For the improved cookstove sector:</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='color:black'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>A lot of investment in combustion and stove R&D was needed: it never happened</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='color:black'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>The GACC needed to address the problem of the WBT as soon as there were concerns with it. The GACC never did. Even now, July 2018, the first testing protocol on the GACC website is still the WBT. Results: the WBT kept testers and manufacturers into a swamp of under-performing stoves with over-performing results.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='color:black'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Poor products were developed, tested, distributed in villages, and ended-up like Cummins stoves.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>One needs to admit his/her mistake, before being able to correct them and move forward. This never happened.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>There’s little mystery behind that global failure.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Best,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Xavier</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:#0563C1'>mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>] <b>De la part de</b> Paul Anderson<br><b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 12 juillet 2018 23:12<br><b>À :</b> Stoves and biofuels network<br><b>Objet :</b> [Stoves] Must reed: Re: [stove] ProPublica article out</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Stovers,<br><br>I thank Kirk Smith for getting the ProPublica article to our attention as soon as it became available.<br><br>Read. Perhaps weep. Work harder. Learn about the opposition to biomass stoves.<br><br>Personally, I am disappointed that there was not a glimmer of recognition of what the TLUD micro-gasifiers HAVE ACCOMPLISHED and have shown to be possible in terms of (A) quite clean cookstoves, (B) STRONG user acceptance, and (C) that carbon credits ARE working with TLUD gasifiers. The authors (and those who were interviewed and quoted) seem to be totally unaware of the REPORTED IN 2016 success in the Deganga pilot study with 11,000 Champion TLUD stoves (see <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/deganga2016"><span style='color:#0563C1'>www.drtlud.com/deganga2016</span></a> ) And lesser known is that the number of households has invreased to about 40,000. And we are looking for funding for scale up for the larger numbers.<br><br>But this article will make it even more difficult to get funding for scale-up of the TLUD stove success story. However, if it can stop wasted money on the UNsuccessful stove-types that are indicated (but not named) in the article, I am not against that. <br><br>This is now mid-2018. The GACC will claim success to reach 100 million households by 2020 on the basis of LPG stoves in India. And then what???? <br><br>Read the article. It is worthy of some discussion here on the Stoves Listserv..<br><br>Paul<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072</pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Stoves mailing list</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</pre><pre><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</pre><pre><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</pre><pre><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>