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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Neil,</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Dr. Anderson has presented some excellent points. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>There should be several others on the list who would know about such calculations and ratios. Hopefully some of them will respond. Julien Winter did some work on this topic and would be among them.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You have done a lot of experimenting. Would you show some photos of your stoves?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Kirk H.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Anderson, Paul</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, September 14, 2018 7:01 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:miles.f@hotmail.co.uk">Miles Franklin</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] ND TLUD Basics</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Neil,</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for your good message and your interest in ND TLUD stoves. ND is so very very different from FA (fan assisted or Forced Air) TLUD stoves. Here are a few insights. Other people could disagree.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>1. With ND, the hole size issue is hardly important. If only wanting one or two for personal use, the cans are so inexpensive that you may punch some hole, try it, than punch others, compare, and decide on what is useful But if you want a quality unit, or to consider something that could go into production, then read the next comment. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>2. The ability to CUT BACK the amount of primary air (PA) is what is important. Champion TLUD and Troika TLUD and Kirk Harris TLUD and current work in Honduras and some other ND TLUD stoves show various ways of control of the PA entry into an area that then lets the PA pass through MANY air holes in the grate. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>3. Secondary air (SA) has three levels: Not enough (includes poor mixing), Enough SA for clean burning, and Too much SA which can give a clean burn but dilutes the heat too much, thereby lowering the efficiency and taking longer times to cook. Again, experimentation will let you have a "personalized" solution. SA can enter via holes or slots or gaps. As long as the SA is not overly restricted from entry, the ND TLUD stoves "tend to" self-regulate on the entry of SA under the concentrator.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>4. More impactful than hole sizes for PA and SA, the size of the hole in the concentrator lid and the amount of riser ("chimney below the pot") will impact the performance of the ND TLUD stoves. I suggest that you try different combinations of concentrator hole sizes and riser heights. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I hope that others make comments. And that you inform us of your experiences.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Best wishes,</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Paul</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD</p><p class=MsoNormal>Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP</p><p class=MsoNormal>Email: psanders@ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud</p><p class=MsoNormal>Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434</p><p class=MsoNormal>Website: www.drtlud.com </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> -----Original Message-----</p><p class=MsoNormal>> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of</p><p class=MsoNormal>> neiltm@uwclub.net</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 6:55 AM</p><p class=MsoNormal>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Subject: [Stoves] NDTLUD Basics</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Could someone please point me to where I can find information about how to</p><p class=MsoNormal>> calculate hole sizes, number and ratio between primary and secondary air</p><p class=MsoNormal>> holes in conventional tincanium NDTLUD stoves?</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> I can do the maths based on calculating area of a hole from the drill size</p><p class=MsoNormal>> diameter, and my measurements of Tom Reed woodgas campstoves told me if</p><p class=MsoNormal>> I remember correctly that the air ratio there was about 1 primary to 6</p><p class=MsoNormal>> secondary, but is there also any recommendation with a ND stove as to the</p><p class=MsoNormal>> volume of primary and/or secondary air in relation to the burn chamber</p><p class=MsoNormal>> diameter and possibly depth?</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> I realise that these ratios are adjusted to suit the fuel, moisture content heat</p><p class=MsoNormal>> requirement etc, but wondered if there were guidelines based on close to zero</p><p class=MsoNormal>> moisture wood? After a lot of interesting experimentation with the cheap</p><p class=MsoNormal>> chinese NDTLUDs and a variety of fuels and conditions, and another month</p><p class=MsoNormal>> spent happily relying on them in Scotland this year, now we are home I want to</p><p class=MsoNormal>> see if I can reliably burn my stovetop dried wood in a larger home made stove</p><p class=MsoNormal>> and pass Paal Wendelbo's 'does it make my eyes sting?' test. This morning's</p><p class=MsoNormal>> breakfast, while a clean looking smokeless flame didn't.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Thanks,</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Neil Taylor</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Stoves mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</p><p class=MsoNormal>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>Stoves mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</p><p class=MsoNormal>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</p><p class=MsoNormal>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</p><p class=MsoNormal>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>