<div dir="ltr">Crispin, all others:<br><br><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px">"From May 2019 it will be illegal to burn unprocessed coal in Ulaanbaatar in spite of that city having the most advanced coal stoves designed in a purpose-built research facility. There is a distance between the rule makers and the product they are ruling."</blockquote><br>1. Is it time to accept defeat, despite some 15 years of World Bank effort, and go home? (I was in Mongolia 20 years ago on electricity and heat tariffs and had another involvement around 2006. I remember the stoves discussion over the years.)<br><br>2. What faith can still be had that all that needs to be done is accept ISO TC-285 "voluntary" performance standards and magic "truly health protective" solid fuel stoves will emerge?<br><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><p class="MsoNormal">"Unfortunately the mania about not burning the only fuels most people can afford is not very well informed."</p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br>3. Rather, ignorance and fashion prevail. I am thinking of Kirk Smith's consulting piece for the Mongolia Ministry of Health. With his long-held untenable belief that unprocessed solid fuels are dirty by definition, I can imagine this ban on unprocessed fuels can be traced to the Health folks poking their nose where it does not belong. <br><br>No problem. People will use the fuels they can get. Heating is not a matter of choice.<br><br>But the academic adventurism will earn many PhDs and journal articles. <br><br>Nikhil</p><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------</font></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><font face="georgia, serif">Nikhil Desai</font></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(US +1) 202 568 5831</span><font face="georgia, serif"><br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 10:29 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dear LH<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Can you tell us something specific about coal combustion and the rules?<br>
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I have heard about people getting gas connections without gas. Is it related to that?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>From May 2019 it will be illegal to burn unprocessed coal in Ulaanbaatar in spite of that city having the most advanced coal stoves designed in a purpose-built research facility. There is a distance
between the rule makers and the product they are ruling.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Unfortunately the mania about not burning the only fuels most people can afford is not very well informed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I think the most sensible rules and product approval system is in New Zealand where they are very tolerant of products that are clean burning, no matter how it is done. Their standard has been in
place for several years – perhaps 10. They have approved products and fuels, but also a rule that anything that is as clean is permitted.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The situation in Montreal is different in that they were ‘scared’ into passing something on an urgent basis and got into problems afterwards with public opinion. It was enthusiasm misinformed on
the basis that fuels have inherent, not incidental emissions. It is a confused situation and that available knowledge is not being shared far enough.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>We are witnessing a failure to communicate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>lh cheng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 08, 2018 6:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nikhil Desai <<a href="mailto:ndesai@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">ndesai@alum.mit.edu</a>>; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] News: Dublin deaths from "renewable energy" - wood and peat heating<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It is a test, test by some ruling elite, how much can people endure, how many lies can they make through. If they declare the ownership of the water, air, then they can declare the ownership of everybody's very life.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Several days ago, people got arrested for burning coals. and some people is forbidden to raise sheep outside of their house, northern China.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">China is different from the other part of the world? No. the same thing is happening throughout the world.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Everything is about truth. They are targeting ordinary people. if they've got the ownership of the air and water, then they will become god of human being, that's their ultimate dream.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And they will succeed in that. and the end times will come. which will prove that they are not god of water or air, according to Revelation chapter 16.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Nikhil Desai <<a href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>>
<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">于</span>2018<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">年</span>12<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">月</span>9<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">日周日</span>
<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">上午</span>12:45<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">写道：</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Basically an argument against EU's Renewable Energy Directive which, in its climate hysteria, treats wood pellets and peat as carbon-neutral fuels. Following Gary Fuller in the Guardian<a href="https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2018%2Fmar%2F01%2Fpollutionwatch-wood-burning-is-not-climate-friendly&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbdd0ef5db45f4aa054ff08d65d696027%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636799104490605066&sdata=ih2FFZnFhpM7qSSe7wLHmcG0XgVVJXZtkJdHwze3N0w%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"> Pollutionwatch:
wood burning is not climate friendly</a>, 1 March 2018, which is rather silly, looking at only CO2 emissions, not all carbon emissions, and dismissing reuptake by photosynthesis. <br>
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Dublin is a city of 1.3 million people. Chunshui Lin, et al., <a href="https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Farticles%2Fs41893-018-0125-x.epdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbdd0ef5db45f4aa054ff08d65d696027%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636799104490605066&sdata=2WBm%2FtUwHpzArbWyLSmAku6WlAxQrIrVJbQLknTV4Mw%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">Extreme
air pollution from residential solid fuel burning</a>, Nature Sustainability, September 2018 claim that "only a few households (<13%) that burn biomass for heating (especially peat) could cause recurring extreme pollution events, influencing the overall air
quality in the city." <br>
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That is enough for Gary Fuller to write in the Guardian <a href="https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2018%2Fsep%2F27%2Fpollutionwatch-wood-and-peat-burning-brings-return-of-air-pollution-to-dublin&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbdd0ef5db45f4aa054ff08d65d696027%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636799104490605066&sdata=Z%2FxHAsI7n6%2Bu3fQ1vuvVkNOUQRgayx6%2BRJnlJvm4bHs%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
Pollutionwatch: wood and peat burning brings return of air pollution to Dublin</a> 27 September 2018.<br>
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Combustion practices matter. The primary research here (Lin et al.) perpetuates the lie of emissions being an inherent property of the fuel by using same emission factors for a fuel type regardless of fuel chemistry and combustion method, and then without regard
to the building design, exhausts, fenestration. <br>
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No exposures were estimated, so no death tally was baked. But if emissions mean exposures, surely exposures mean death. <br>
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Air quality experts are welcome in a regulatory debate, along with engineers, architects, fuel and stove marketers. Absent such debate, people are condemned to these environmental health zealots.<br>
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Nikhil<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">------------------------------------------------<br clear="all"></span></p><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Nikhil Desai</font></div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(US +1) 202 568 5831</span><font face="georgia, serif"><br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><u></u><u></u><p></p>
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