<div dir="ltr">Teddy:<br><br><div><div dir="ltr" class="m_1138253012383396753gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Thank you. Interesting, but overly academic for my taste. The list of citations for simple points is tedious and loses the key point that such contexts differ and generating "policy implications" based on a very narrow study.<br><br>However, urban forestry and private parks, gardens can be very useful fuel sources. (If land, water, air quality are not compromised, also vegetable and fruit production for commercial purposes.) African cities are good prospects.<br><br>The question is, who would do this and how? <br><br>Lands are public or private, with competition for real estate, infrastructure, and public parks or urban forestry. It takes a competent, bankable municipal government and some "civic society" buy-in to develop a landscape and urban air quality, water drainage systems, and tree management activities to use tree and leaf waste for processed fuels.<br><br>Nikhil<br><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 4:02 AM Cookswell Jikos <<a href="mailto:cookswelljikos@gmail.com" target="_blank">cookswelljikos@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Along this thread of fuel supply - for those of you who enjoy reading about charcoal production in Africa - this recent paper makes for some great weekend reading. <div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,80,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,"Lucida Sans Unicode","Microsoft Sans Serif","Segoe UI Symbol",STIXGeneral,"Cambria Math","Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif;font-size:16px">Predicted growth of smaller urban areas and associated higher demand for charcoal will provide substantial opportunities for rural income generation, most likely leading to shifts in producers and production scales. Rather than transferring existing formal approaches, which marginalise rural stakeholders, small urban areas provide opportunities to develop equitable production systems, with potential to deliver sustainable energy and rural development. </span> <a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X18303243?via%3Dihub" target="_blank">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X18303243?via%3Dihub</a></div><div><br></div><div>One of the authors keeps this very good blog about the same updated every now and then as well <a href="https://charcoaldiaries.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/debunking-charcoal-myths-part-1/" target="_blank">https://charcoaldiaries.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/debunking-charcoal-myths-part-1/</a> </div><div><br></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">Teddy Kinyanjui</font></div><div><br></div><div><b><br></b></div><div><div style="font-size:small"><br></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 5:47 PM Anderson, Paul <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tom Price and others at Inyenyeri can answer better than I can. Tom does read this Listserv (I think.).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cooking with good TLUD stoves (Mimi Moto and others) saves fuel (fuel savings mean less cutting of wood, even if it is farm-grown or in the wild).
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Additionality is that the households would not be doing this savings if they could not get the stoves, and the stoves are supplied by the project.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I see no objections to how this project functions. My reservations are about the financing for reaching the many millions needing good stoves. But we know that getting stove projects started takes much money. Examples include some
that are starting and others that have shifted into more stabilized production costs:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Burn in Kenya ---- Many millions at the start. Now seems to be stabilized for production and business. (not counting much money for the design and testing)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Inyenyeri ----- $12 million and now has 5000 TLUD stoves (not counting the substantial investment to get the Mimi Moto stove designed, tested, and into production)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rocket stoves ----- Years and much money at Aprovecho and the business efforts, including by SSM in china.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Champion TLUD ----- Development work by Anderson and Servals, but with some millions by atmosfair to establish the carbon credit program (somewhere around 35,000 stoves).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Prime and Prof. M. Nurhuda --- Substantial, but I do not know the numbers<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">SNV in SE Asia ----- LOTS of expenditures.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Solar cookers, alcohol stoves, and even LPG stoves are backed by substantial time and money.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anyone can add to this list (or disagree with me).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But the BIG issue is financial sustainability with quality stoves. And how much are the improved stoves actually helping the people is substantial ways (substantial is not defined here). I will have more on this by the time of ETHOS
in late January.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">psanders@ilstu.edu</span></a> Skype: paultlud<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">www.drtlud.com</span></a>
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 13, 2018 2:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] FW: New York Times: Toxic Smoke Is Africa’s Quiet Killer. An Entrepreneur Says His Fix Can Make a Fortune<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA">Dear Paul <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing">I was discussing this with someone off list and they made the following observation, which seems relevant. They asked:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA">Is Inyenyeri solving a non existent problem?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA">The question is relevant because there are not forests left in Rwanda. The cutting of the remaining national forest has been stopped (securing the habitat of the mountain gorillas, mainly). All wood comes from farmers
that grow trees as a crop. This applies as well to the charcoal trade which is legal and sustainable.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA">Where is the wood coming from? As I understand the project when I reviewed it, the wood is brought to the pelleting house by people who trade it on a discounted mass basis for pellets. The rural community is therefore
doing the foraging. They have to get wood somehow to cook, but when they do, they can take it to the processing centre and get bags of pellets in return – no money involved.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA">In town, the pellets are sold. The town pellets come from the discounted exchange in the rural area.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA">So…does the project still work this way? If so, how is a carbon credit being calculated? There are no forests to “save” so the collection of wood is sustainable. Isn’t some unsustainable fraction required for CDM
credits to apply? Plus additionality (look it up).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA">I think it would be helpful if the project financing model were explained in a way that helped us to know how to replicate it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA">Much appreciated.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA">Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_1138253012383396753gmail-m_-1045419903189970191gmail-m_-3138499359423854135MsoNoSpacing"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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