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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Thank you Julien for pointing out that the data used in the Cornelissen et al report is from one reference in a study published in 2008:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">MacCarty N, Ogle D, Still D, Bond T, Roden C. A laboratory comparison of the global warming impact of<br>
</p>
<div>five major types of biomass cooking stoves. Energy for sustainable development. 2008; 12(2):56–65.</div>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">I cannot find my copy right now, and I am not going to pay for a copy of something 10 years old. But I can tell you this:<br>
</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">That was not a representative example of a TLUD stove. No need to criticize the stove of poor design, but to criticize the POOR selection of a stove to be labeled as a TLUD.</p>
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<div> I have never been approached by any respected tester of cookstove emissions for my recommendation of what TLUD stoves to include in the well funded research studies. Poor choices by others in the past continue to haunt us with faulty results. And for
"peer review", when the peers do not know as much as they think they do, publication in a prestigious journal does not improve the quality of the data.
<br>
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<div><br>
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<div>As for methane from TLUD stoves, there is zero evidence that methane is an emission problem of a properly made and used TLUD-ND stove, or of a TLUD-FA stove.
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div>I hope that Hans-Peter (and others) are GLAD that there is reason to claim true net-negative CO2e emissions when char from TLUD stoves is sequestered as biochar. We WANT this beneficial impact for climate improvement. And we want it acknowledged and
credited at the present movement, and not be discounted for some 20-year period because of misinterpretation about methane emissions that are not occurring.
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div>REJOICE!!</div>
<div><br>
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<div>About Kon-Tiki and other open-top flame-cap char production devices, I do not have adequate information about methane emissions. Those emissions might be high, and open-top flame-cap might not be sufficiently justifiable. But I assure you that the COVERED
flame-cap units called 4C kilns are able to avoid such undesirable emissions. (Stay tuned. I am working on this.)</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Paul Anderson<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> biochar@yahoogroups.com <biochar@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of winter.julien@gmail.com [biochar] <biochar@yahoogroups.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 24, 2019 9:50:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> biochar@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [biochar] Methane from char-makers</font>
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<div>Hello all; <br>
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FIRST POINT: I think that these statement that “TLUDs emit substantive amounts of CH4" is fallacious reasoning that is jumping to conclusions. The evidence I have seen (below) is that forced draft TLUDs don’t emit substantive amounts of CH4, and the conclusion
on natural draft TLUDs is made on a single? observation of a old design.<br>
<br>
In these Yahoo discussions I have only been able the one paper by Cornelissen et al. (2016), so my comments follow form that.<br>
<br>
I think this paper gives some important of data on CH4 release from Kon.Tiki. We should take note of these emissions and conduct further studies to corroborate their findings, and extend the range of conditions, such as low or high nitrogen content fuels (e.g.,
manures and leafy biomass).<br>
<br>
On the subject of TLUDs, Cornelissen's paper cites an old study McCarthy et al. (2008) were substantive emissions of CH4 were measured from an early design of natural draft TLUD (ND-TLUD), and low CH4 emissions from a forced draft Philips TLUD (FD-TLUD). The
ND-TLUD in McCarthy paper had at best a Tier-3 burner, and possibly only Tier-2 in emissions.<br>
<br>
McCarthy et al's paper is an important step in SCIENTIFIC reasoning, because it logically REFUTES the hypothesis that "all ND-TLUDs emit benign amounts of CH4" It also CORROBORATES (but does not logically confirm) the hypothesis that "all FD-TLUDs emit benign
amounts of CH4"<br>
<br>
However, from McCarthy's study we can only draw the conclusion that "there exists at least one ND-TLUD such that it emits substantive amounts CH4". <br>
<br>
It would be a logical fallacy called “affirming the consequent” to conclude that “all ND-TLUDs emit substantive amounts of CH4" This is tantamount to declaring “all swans are white” on the basis of seeing some white swans, but bothering to see if there any
swans of a different color, i.e. back ones.<br>
<br>
What McCarthy’s paper does, however, is challenges us to refute this hypothesis, that “all ND-TLUDs emit substantive amounts of CH4".<br>
<br>
Since 2008, there has been work to move ND-TLUDs into the Tier-4 category of emissions. With these modern ND-TLUDs it is quite likely that the hypothesis that “all ND-TLUDs emit substantive amounts of CH4" would be REFUTED.<br>
<br>
>From what I can see, this recent Yahoo debate that asserts that “all ND-TLUDs emit substantive amounts of CH4," is fallacious reasoning. Extrapolating beyond the evidence. Jumping to conclusions.<br>
<br>
I need to be strong on this point, there are damaging consequence to promoting false conclusions. It has to be emphasized that we need more research first.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
SECOND POINT.<br>
<br>
When it comes to calculating the contribution of biochar production to the mitigation of climate change, context is really important.<br>
<br>
ND-TLUDs are being introduced to get households who are ALREADY burning biomass and producing CH4 to switch to method that makes biochar. In that context, the biochar should get full credit for sequestering carbon.<br>
<br>
That is a different context from where people, who were not previously burning biomass, start making biochar in TLUDs and Kon Tiki kilns.<br>
<br>
<br>
THIRD POINT<br>
<br>
There is a social dimension to ND-TLUD stove. Households that use a traditional stove are completely self-sufficient in cooking. When they switch to any ‘improved’ stove that is manufactured elsewhere, they are relinquishing that self-sufficiently. That
is extremely important for communities that are not strongly integrated into a cash economy, living in countries whose currencies have a weak purchasing power in international markets.<br>
<br>
The ND-TLUD has a unique feature compared to other biomass stoves. It automatically makes biochar whilst cooking with less fuel, and greatly reducing women’s exposure to smoke. Biochar has a value to the household to increase their food production, or can
be sold in the community. Biochar compensates the family for giving up their traditional stove — their self-sufficiency in cooking — by increasing household income and food security.<br>
<br>
Because of the interaction of the TLUD and the biochar, this system is socially and economically sustainable, and doesn’t need subsidies for carbon credits to exist (although carbon credits would greatly help in scaling-up and research and development).<br>
<br>
<div>I challenge those with high-tech methods of making biochar to make their business models similarly sustainable without carbon credit subsidies in these low-income rural communities. I challenge them to put the benefits of biochar directly into the hands
of rural households, rather than into the hands of some local businessman who already cooks on LPG and drives a car.</div>
<br>
For an example, see this video documentary from Bangladesh. “Documentary — Biochar Production in Bangladesh — The Akha Gasifier Stove (Subtitles)”<br>
https://youtu.be/ujqza-NDy4I<br>
Note that this is at early stages, so don’t take the TLUD design, or how they handle biochar as optimized. This is a work in progress, and they are learning.<br>
<br>
(Disclaimer: All my work on TLUDs and biochar is pro bono) <br>
<br>
Julien.
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