<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">To: <span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">Rogerio cc stoves. (Rogerio has a great history on stoves - and was one of the earliest stove list contributors (then in Nicaragua with Prolena))</span></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="font-size: 14px; white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">Thanks for these additional thoughts on modifying a traditional rocket - with a similar “sideways flame”.</span></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">See a few questions below, but I also hope to get your reaction to apparently great changes (increases in wood stove use in Brazil - as subsidies have been greatly decreased for LPG. )</span></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>This from reading: "</span>The energy transition history of fuelwood replacement for liquefied petroleum
gas in Brazilian households from 1920 to 2016”, available, non-fee, at a Kirk Smith site: <a href="https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53856e1ee4b00c6f1fc1f602/t/5b8976edaa4a99b00191295c/1535735539528/Coehlo+LPG+history+EP+18.pdf" class="">https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53856e1ee4b00c6f1fc1f602/t/5b8976edaa4a99b00191295c/1535735539528/Coehlo+LPG+history+EP+18.pdf</a></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>This would seem to be a tremendous opportunity for TLUDs and char-making stoves - especially because of Brazil's Terra Preta history. The above article emphasizes the importance of affordability - and charcoal-making stoves could have even negative costs. </div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Can you comment on this aspect of the usual stoves on this list (yours not being typical - very handsome, but not apparently emphasizing minimum cost).</div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">(More below)</div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 27, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Rogerio carneiro de miranda <<a href="mailto:carneirodemiranda@gmail.com" class="">carneirodemiranda@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">Hello Ron and stove colleagues:<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="">Indeed, very interesting what Kevin is doing with three stone fire to improve efficiency. Clever, and boy, it took more than 10k years to figure out such simple solution…….</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">RWL: Your store clearly uses a grate with a similar function to Kevin’s rocks. Kevin started with a metal grate.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="">Regarding the rocket stoves, what I have done is what a call an extended rocket stove chamber. Usually an stand alone rocket stove supports only one pot under its combustion chamber, but if you add a griddle on top of it, you can use two or even three pots by channeling the hot gases under the griddle, before going to a chimney.</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">RWL: Does “plancha” mean the same as “griddle”? You are emphasizing no flame escape at each “pot-hole”. Should Kevin strive for same in some cases?</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="">My extended rocket stove does support two pots under the same combustion chamber, which basically I make a longer rocket stove ¨chimney¨, which does allow two pots above and on the same level. Of course, the fuel consumption is higher, 1.45 kg/hour in contrast with 0.9 kg/hour in a one pot stove. </div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL. Can you also discuss TDR = turn down ratio.</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="">I made this extended rocket stove in order to power a four burners Premium Ecostove, which has an one meter long griddle (4 pots holes), a 45 liters oven, and a water coil heater. Basically, I get direct flames under the first two holes from the extended rocket chamber, and also flames onto the third hole by the suction from the chimney draft. On the fourth hole I usually get flames only when the stove is operating at full power.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="">This new stove was developed in response to the Brazilian market, which liked the benefits of the rocket stove, but demanded a more powerful and useful stove. <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">Here </span>a<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large"> link for a</span> photo of our Premium Ecostove<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large"> </span><a href="https://ecofogao.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/WhatsApp-Image-2018-07-16-at-10.44.02.jpeg" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="">https://ecofogao.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/WhatsApp-Image-2018-07-16-at-10.44.02.jpeg</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>See also Rogerio here: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tNpSRhEeRI" class="">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tNpSRhEeRI</a></div><div><br class=""></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I think this list would like to understand your market. Is wood firing like yours competing now against LPG? On a cost basis - or what basis? Could char-making, if giving negative costs, be a plus?</div><div><br class=""></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Thanks again.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Ron</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="">Regards</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="">Rogério</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em qui, 25 de abr de 2019 às 01:02, Ronal Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank" class="">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> escreveu:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">List: cc Kevin M</div><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>1. This is to bring you up-to-date on Kevin McLean’s “zero cost” stove work - that I have learned in the last 4 weeks.. This today is on three (mainly one) new concepts (despite keeping the thread name). It has applicability especially to those working with Rocket stoves - but I am pretty sure he/we can find ways to work also with TLUDs. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>2. After Kevin sent me 3 short videos a few days ago, we agreed there could be great benefit to his and everybody’s stove research to get this early work out for discussion. So this is to ask everyone to view Kevin’s annotated 2 minute video on an approach I have not previously seen:</div><div class=""><div class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EJQEKKkMTQbcKn3kBC1YZ50oqtZPsbym/view" target="_blank" class="">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EJQEKKkMTQbcKn3kBC1YZ50oqtZPsbym/view</a>. </div><div class=""> I am amazed that so much energy gets to the second pot (and he may develop a 3 pot design, that also looks well worth the relatively small added extra cost). No metals anywhere.</div><div class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Anyone seen this before? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> <span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>3. I will try to report soon on two other new (to me) very low cost stove improvement areas on which Kevin has also been working - and which I am unaware of any others pursuing: </div><div class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>- adding energy storage using movable hot rocks or bricks (headed to hay baskets maybe?)</div><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>- making char while cooking (and NOT with TLUDs)</div><div class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Can anyone give a lead to these storage and char-making areas?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>4. The 4th area of our discussions since the message below still seems brand new:<span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><br class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>- improved air flow with 3-stones - using "rocks and clay grates” to elevate the fuel.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>5. Since Kevin is adamant on zero costs to users (and minimum costs allowable when payback time is short), these ideas are not amenable to most companies looking at the 3-stone-user market. Accordingly, Kevin will not be patenting any of this - all 4 areas will be open source.<span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="m_-5031855561137124612gmail-m_-8968877051245596851Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Anyone working on any of these 4 areas? Or know of past results from anywhere?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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