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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am sending this reply to the Stoves Listserv because a larger audience is appropriate. (and I changed to the correct address for Elisa Derby.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is typical that there is extremely little discussion about or by the CCA on the Stoves Listserv. It has been that way a long long time.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean asks “Who is going to the CCA Forum in Kenya in November?” I looked at the CCA website and did not find info. It is not listed under “Events”. Is this the next installment of the bi-annual large meetings? Will there be announcements
coming? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean also wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“The updated "Clean Burning Biomass Cook Stoves" will be done this Fall.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">New chapters on forced draft, TEG, combustion, heat transfer, project planning, Test Kitchen.”
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is there any more info about that? Who is doing it? Are they reaching out to practitioners who are active about the chapters (new ones and continuing ones)?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It would be good to have more info and more discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"><span style="color:#0563C1">psanders@ilstu.edu</span></a> Skype: paultlud<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.drtlud.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dean Still <deankstill@gmail.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 8, 2019 5:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Julien Winter <winter.julien@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Harris, Kirk <gkharris316@comcast.net>; Vi Rapp <vhrapp@lbl.gov>; Ronal W. Larson <rongretlarson@comcast.net>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>; Norman Baker <ntbakerphd@gmail.com>; Larry Winiarski <larryw@gotsky.com>; Jock Gill <jg45@icloud.com>;
Derby, Elisa <ederby@winrock.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: making charcoal to help control climate change<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#EB0000">[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to
</span></b><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:abuse@ilstu.edu"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">abuse@ilstu.edu</span></b></a></span><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#EB0000">]
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Julien, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We measure all of the parameters you listed when R&D testing to evolve better combustion and heat transfer efficiency.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Then we move to the Controlled Cooking Test, under the hood in the country of interest, to have local cooks design the cooking function in the new stove using local fuels, pots, foods, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That CCT process usually takes about 100 tests.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Usually takes about 100 water boiling tests when done sequentially to make significant progress in the lab. 2 tests per day= two months?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anyone going to Nairobi for the CCA Forum?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The updated "Clean Burning Biomass Cook Stoves" will be done this Fall.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">New chapters on forced draft, TEG, combustion, heat transfer, project planning, Test Kitchen.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 2:22 PM Julien Winter <<a href="mailto:winter.julien@gmail.com">winter.julien@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Folks; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with Dean. There is a lot of research yet to be done on TLUDs. There are several theoretical approaches and geometries possible with natural draft TLUD burner design. All this needs systematic testing of hypotheses by modifying
one variable and holding many other variables constant. When more that one hypothesis is tested (e.g., concentrator diameter, riser height and specific gasification rate) then we need to test various combinations (a factorial design) … replicated. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Also into this mix are different types of fuel and fuel water content.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We need a big grant (that we don't spend on mass spectrometers and lasers) to run 1000s tests measuring basic parameters such as ficial velocity of primary air. excess air, CO, PM in the exhaust, and the super <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In the meantime, we do what we can by trial and error on an ad hoc basis. The good thing about the informal burner trials is that they have generated hypotheses to be tested more rigorously.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Julien<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:46 PM Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" target="_blank">deankstill@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Kirk, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I would wait until the bugs are worked out?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The stove community has hurt itself a lot by promoting stoves that do not work well yet.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am laughed at by potential funders who have read the newspapers and blogs.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are digging ourselves out of a hole that the stove community dug for itself.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Much better to downplay performance, never exaggerate.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dean<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 12:25 PM Harris, Kirk <<a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net" target="_blank">gkharris316@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>Dean,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thank you for your considered response. I appreciate your expert input. Your concerns are an important part of what I was hoping could be brought into the public discussion on Science Friday. Dr. Anderson added some important input as well. Perhaps Julien,
you would like to present your work on public radio, so the world can benefit from the knowledge of your efforts. I am not saying this system is perfect and is what we need to save the world (though it could help if we can stimulate politicians to be supportive).
What I am asking is to bring this into the public discussion, instead of leaving it with a privileged few.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Kirk H.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 8/8/2019 12:02 AM, Dean Still wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Kirk, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Remember that black smoke is about 700 times worse for climate change than CO2 by weight.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1.) The energy in the wood really has to be used for a good purpose so it's not wasted and 2.) there needs to be no smoke or CO. And 3.the wood has to be sustainably harvested to be carbon neutral.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So far, I haven't seen anyone meet these three criteria so when asked I can't say that biochar is currently a supportable process.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Maybe a good idea but like other biomass schemes, such as cooking, needs a lot more R&D.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dean<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 1:52 PM Harris, Kirk <<a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net" target="_blank">gkharris316@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All,<br>
<br>
For the last few months I have been trying to get a public radio <br>
program, Science Friday, which frequently has programs on climate change <br>
to bring into the discussion biomass power plants, especially plants <br>
that remove CO2 from the atmosphere by producing char. The program <br>
always includes solar, wind, and mechanical CO2 extraction from the <br>
atmosphere, but never includes the biomass options. I am hoping to get <br>
the biomass options with their advantages, into the public discussion, <br>
and this seems to me to be a good place to start. Could you contact the <br>
program and ask them to include the biomass options in their <br>
discussions. I understand this is not about TLUD cook stoves, but it is <br>
a related topic. Perhaps TLUD principles can be scaled up to work for a <br>
large scale power plant.<br>
<br>
Go to "Science Friday" and scroll to the bottom of the home page and <br>
click on "contact"<br>
<br>
Attached is my last communication with the Science Friday people.<br>
<br>
I have continued to experiment with stove concepts, with the goal of <br>
burning clean at high power levels in the TLUD-ND, enhancing the older <br>
designs and trying some new variations. I am focusing on increased <br>
surface contact, and maximizing the use of the pressure difference, <br>
between the air and wood gas.<br>
<br>
Kirk H.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---<br>
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.<br>
<a href="https://www.avg.com" target="_blank">https://www.avg.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dean Still<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Executive Director <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aprovecho Research Center<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">PO Box 1175<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">76132 Blue Mountain School Road<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cottage Grove, OR 97424<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(541) 767-0287<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.aprovecho.org" target="_blank">www.aprovecho.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div id="gmail-m_-6413399091758179259gmail-m_4977677869307074384gmail-m_-3286307813178874518DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E">Virus-free.
</span><a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4453EA">www.avg.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E">
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dean Still<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Executive Director <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aprovecho Research Center<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">PO Box 1175<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">76132 Blue Mountain School Road<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cottage Grove, OR 97424<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(541) 767-0287<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.aprovecho.org" target="_blank">www.aprovecho.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Julien Winter<br>
Cobourg, ON, CANADA<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dean Still<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Executive Director <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aprovecho Research Center<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">PO Box 1175<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">76132 Blue Mountain School Road<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cottage Grove, OR 97424<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(541) 767-0287<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.aprovecho.org" target="_blank">www.aprovecho.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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