<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Christa, you and Crispin both suggested charcoal displacement as the reason for the efficiency improvement. This is a simple explanation that justifies the use of rocks and a second grate in the mbaula.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Do you think there may be other factors involved, too? In the Zambian mbaula testing, efficiency was improved 41%. The charcoal displacement was not close to 41%. I'll try to think of other tests that allow for charcoal displacement.</div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 3:18 PM Christa Roth (bioenergylist) <<a href="mailto:stoves@foodandfuel.info">stoves@foodandfuel.info</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Ron, you keep repeating: <i>We have no idea yet on why simple rocks and extra grates are doing so much. (Anyone have an idea why? My next message more on that)</i><br><div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">And I have provided an answer to that numerous time and sent the link to the AProvcho article on the importance of the initial load: </div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">You can save an enormous amount of charcoal if you limit the amount that people load into a stove. The Zambian brazier is completely overpowered as people load it to the brim. Adding a grate and filling the existing volume with stones prevents that people can land the same amount of charcoal as the stones displace the charcoal. </div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">Same as putting a brick in the tank for the toilet flush saves water, as it fills part of the volume. </div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">I did testing on the Zambian brazier today (it was loaded with 900 g of charcoal as people tend to fill it up) , and we cooked the same meal with less than half the charcoal on any of the other stoves where we only loaded with an initial 310-350 g of charcoal </div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">That is my answer</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">Christa</div>
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<div><br><div>Am 30.10.2019 um 19:13 schrieb Ronal Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>>:</div><br><div><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div>Bernhard and list, cc Kevin</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>1. Kevin responded to your increasing CO comment (below) - saying CO not yet measured. (This following Kevin’s message re adding rocks and an extra grate to the Zambian (char-burning) “Mbaula” - giving maybe 40% fuel saving.</div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>2. I guess that the reverse is likely: less CO. My reason is the horrible production of CO - which drives down efficiency. Kevin’s efficiency is going up - not down</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>3. This is mainly to hope that we can find someone (in nGermany?) to make the measurement. Important because Kevin is achieving a huge tree-saving result at almost no cost.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>4. We have no idea yet on why simple rocks and extra grates are doing so much. (Anyone have an idea why? My next message more on that)</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br></div><div>Ps - Thanks for all you have done for solar cookers (I own one of your 1 meter parabolic designs). Your BABAMOTO stove (see below) looks quite interesting. I was happier to read your piece on char-<u style="font-weight:bold">making</u> stoves at:</div><div><a href="https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/solarcooking/images/b/b6/Gasifier_Stoves,_Bernhard_Muller,_3-21-16.pdf/revision/latest?cb=20160322185245" target="_blank">https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/solarcooking/images/b/b6/Gasifier_Stoves%2C_Bernhard_Muller%2C_3-21-16.pdf/revision/latest?cb=20160322185245</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Bernhard Müller <<a href="mailto:bs_mueller@gmx.net" target="_blank">bs_mueller@gmx.net</a> wrote:</div><br><div><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Kevin,<div>the way I understand this system is to obtain efficiency for the price of more CO production. <br><div>
<div style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Bernhard S. Müller</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Mühlstr. 26</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">65760 Eschborn</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="mailto:bs_mueller@gmx.net" target="_blank">bs_mueller@gmx.net</a></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://www.babamoto.org/" target="_blank">https://www.babamoto.org</a></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://www.afrishiners.solar/" target="_blank">https://www.afrishiners.solar</a></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div></div></div><br></div><br><br>
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Am 27.10.2019 um 18:00 schrieb <a href="mailto:stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>:</div><br><div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">(no subject) (K McLean)</span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></div></div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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