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    <p>All,</p>
    <p>I look at my Stove Tec charcoal stove and note that it has a
      grate that lets air into the charcoal from below.  This gives a
      hotter and more lively flame than burning on a solid surface.  The
      rocks would do the same thing, providing better air flow. 
      Reducing the charcoal quantity would reduce the air flow
      resistance through the fuel, again improving air flow.  This
      hotter more lively flame, with effective secondary air mixing,
      will burn the CO better.   Sam at Aprovecho has done a lot of
      research on burning charcoal, and would be one of those to be
      consulted.  He also found that if the CO passes through a flame it
      burns better, which makes sense because when it meets the
      secondary air, it will be preheated and the flame will provide an
      ignition source.  Providing adequate air, space, time and heat to
      keep a CO flame going above the charcoal will help eliminate CO
      emissions.  I don't see anything new with the rocks, just a good
      application of existing knowledge.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Kirk H.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/2019 4:13 PM, Ronal Larson
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:61A467FB-F7DF-4E61-B8AE-B76B0023002B@comcast.net">
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        <div class="">Crispin, Kevin,  List,  cc Christa</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Note
          change in thread title.   The previous were under the name “no
          subject”- which wouldn’t help researchers not around for this
          thread (which is going well).<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">        </span></div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span></div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>1.
           My comments below were started before responding to a similar
          message from Christa Roth - just sent.  So later readers
          please go back to that "no subject" thread that was started a
          few weeks ago by Kevin - reporting on three simple tests in
          three different African countries (also identified below - now
          up to 4).  All show major efficiency improvements when small
          stones and/or a second grate are added to an existing
          charcoal-using stove.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>2.
           The main points for Kevin and others are (and hope others
          will disagree or add/subtract):</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           use a water boiling test - not a cooking test.  The latter is
          too subjective on the right termination time, and is difficult
          to replicate.  Also doesn’t give  the needed comparative
          information on power and efficiency.</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           use at least two standard fuel amounts;  maybe 0.3 and 1 kg
           (this now being the main discussion topic)</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
          report something on the char - especially the size
          distribution. (Which itself can be another test parameter).
           Maybe a statement like “32 pieces in the 1 kg - with a
          max/min range less than 2:1”</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           report on the details of starting the fire. (Amount of
          Leaves, paper, alcohol, wax etc).  See below on using a metal
          tube.</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           details on the cook pot</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           the amount of water should match the stove’s intended use -
          maybe 2 or (not and) 5 liters;  of course measure the amount
          boiled away.  Report elevation, etc</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
          times are important.  Measure the time to get fire started and
          put pot on,  b) time to  boil and stop the test-   c) stop
          time - maybe 1 hour max, and d) time to tend  Don’t worry now
          about hot and cold starts</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
          assume 30 MJ/kg for the char, unless you have more
          information.  The right equations for per levels, energy used,
          and efficiency are all over the place.</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           give several photos of the stoves - with dimensions.  So
          others can compare or try to duplicate</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           Its fine to use unskilled testers - to save money.  Let
          approved labs worry about CO, PM2.5 etc.   Amateurs (school
          kids) can do the above test outline well enough.  </div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           your four reported tests could be improved, but almost anyone
          using a stove can help with numerical data.  We need a lot.
           Your four reporters all did well.</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           cooking tests are not to be discouraged - but after water
          boiling tests.  After you’ve picked a best (which could
          include economics on the costs (and benefits) of an extra
          grate or two.)</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           next tests can/should progress to details on the number and
          size of the (free) stones and the number of grates.  Two extra
          grates (and stones on one or both sides) may still improve the
          efficiency further.</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
          report little details - the sizes of the pot and stove (air
          gaps both vertically and radially), etc</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
          report the amount of time spent tending the fire.  If there is
          air control, explain that.</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>-
           Lastly -  plentiful details on the two main parameters now
          needing study - the stones and the grates (materials,
          thicknesses,- not just the diameter(s) and the number of
          holes).</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>3.
           Concentrate all tests and discussions on stones and extra
          grates.  They are the issue now - not the amount of char to be
          loaded or where the best location for air holes, stove
          materials, etc.   We need examples of dozens if not hundreds
          of stove designs - if we are ever going to figure out how to
          optimize the main new parameters - stones and grate numbers.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>Kevin
          -   thanks for putting all you time and energy in on these
          mods that don’t seem in any way possible to pay for your
          expenses to date (including going to Nairobi - please keep us
          informed on whether this subject came up with anyone.)</div>
        <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">           </span>And
          next we can talk about charcoal-making stoves - which should
          make money, not just save it.</div>
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        </div>
        Ron</div>
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        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Oct 27, 2019, at 1:28 PM, Crispin
              Pemberton-Pigott <<a
                href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">Dear Kevin </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">This is an
                  interesting exploration that may yield consistent
                  benefits is someone is using that rather dreadful
                  device. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">There are
                  dozens of charcoal combustors in Africa and the one
                  shown is one of the worst. Given that there are far
                  better devices for burning charcoal, not to mention
                  better ways to load the fuel, I am too surprised that
                  just about anything you do would not improve it. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">Cecil Cook
                  and I assisted GTZ's ProBEC North in the period
                  2007-2010 to improve the appalling charcoal waste in
                  Lusaka.  Cecil came up with an interesting analysis
                  which was the result of interviewing users about how
                  much money they could save before their pockets "grew
                  holes". It was a bout 10 days income. Any stove that
                  costs more than that was unlike to sell no matter what
                  it did. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
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                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">A second
                  thing observed was the widespread used of a metal tube
                  as a chimney to speed the ignition. It seems the
                  second test was conducted without lighting the fuel
                  properly. I wonder if the tube was used for these
                  tests. </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">    </span><b
              class="">[RWL:   This is an important practical piece of
              advise.  Can probably save 10 minutes in the testing</b></div>
          <br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
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                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">Two
                  additional things that would make testing more
                  convincing. First, there is far too much fuel in the
                  stove. Do people really use a kg and light the whole
                  thing to cook a meal? I would expect something between
                  500 and 700 g. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
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                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">Second is
                  that one should never have a pot sitting directly on
                  the charcoal. It cannot possibly burn properly with
                  the pot sitting on the fuel extinguishing the flames. </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">    </span><b
              class="">[RWL:   I think you have to place the pot on the
              char if that is local practice.  Can do both.  </b></div>
          <br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
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                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">That stove
                  usually has the pot sitting on top of the lip of the
                  stove with the fuel burning under it. The pot seals to
                  the stove and the gases exit through the holes. That
                  is why (in part) it is such a terrible cooker. It has
                  poor aeration and very high CO contributing to its
                  performance. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">More than
                  ten years ago a much better stove was introduced, a
                  metal version of the Maputo Ceramic Stove developed by
                  a retired German metal worker from the MCS. This costs
                  more than the one in the report, which I recall sells
                  for about $1.50. </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">       </span><b
            class="">[RWL:  Any cite possible?</b><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
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                    class="">
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                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">If that is
                  the device someone is using, and the addition of the
                  stones improves performance consistently, by all means
                  continue. I'd like to see it operated with half the
                  fuel loaded to represent more closely the typical
                  pattern of use. I can't see the theoretical basis for
                  the additional plate making any difference save that
                  if it is loose, air can flow around the edge perhaps
                  burning off some of the CO generated in the midst of
                  the fire. As can be seen in the photo, elevating the
                  fuel above the lip gets it into the open air where it
                  can burn better.  It's is still pretty awful, though. </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>[RWL:
             I can’t yet see the theoretical reasons either - which is
            why I am pushing this thread (I keep saying Kevin has
            brought us two new important ideas - backed up by four
            reports working with very different stove (and earlier with
            wood-burning.  This list can make this discovery get moving
            faster.  Kevin’s report this year on stones with the 3-stone
            fire is already reported to have been adopted by million in
            one small part of one small country - saving 40-50% of the
            wood!</b><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <div id="response_container_BBPPID" dir="auto"
                style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: initial;
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                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
                start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
                -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
                rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration: none; outline:
                none;" class="" contenteditable="false">
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">The
                  Malgache stove popular in West and Central Africa is
                  better from several points of view including that it
                  elevates the pot above the fuel. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">If you want
                  to burn charcoal reasonably well there should be 50mm
                  vertical space between the fuel and the pot. That
                  region should be sheltered from cross winds and
                  aeration should be provided that reaches almost to the
                  centre, if possible. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">As to the
                  retention of heat in the stones, there is no doubt
                  they will get hot. The main benefit of stored heat in
                  a stove is to keep the char burning more completely as
                  the fire dies. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">How a bout
                  trying the experiment again using 350 g of charcoal
                  and break it up so it can burn at a rate high enough
                  to provide the cooking power needed. The fuel particle
                  surface to volume ratio defines this. If you want more
                  power, get more surface area burning at the same time.
                  It should fit into the space under the pot when it is
                  sitting on the stove lip. </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">       </span><b
            class="">[RWL:  See my comment above on reporting on fuel
            sizes.</b></div>
        <div><b class=""><br class="">
          </b></div>
        <div><b class="">End </b></div>
        <div><b class=""><br class="">
          </b></div>
        <div><b class="">Ron<br class="">
          </b>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <div id="response_container_BBPPID" dir="auto"
                style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: initial;
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                letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
                start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
                -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
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                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">It is can
                  cook with 200 g there would still be lots left. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">Incidentally
                  when burning a kg of charcoal and stopping with most
                  of it left over, you should report the energy
                  liberated as that of the charcoal ash-free (AF). This
                  is because all the original ash in the fuel is still
                  there at the end, which means the missing mass is
                  combustible, not "average charcoal". Suppose the ash
                  is 10%. Then the missing 200 g mass has the energy of
                  200/0.9 g = 222 g of charcoal with ash in it. </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">Regards </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class="">Crispin </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
                <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
                  dir="auto" style="width: 1015px;" class=""><br
                    class="">
                </div>
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              <div id="_original_msg_header_BBPPID" dir="auto"
                style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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                      <td colspan="2" style="font-size: initial;
                        text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255,
                        255, 255);" class="">
                        <div style="border-style: solid none none;
                          border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color:
                          rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;
                          font-family: Tahoma, "BB Alpha
                          Sans", "Slate Pro"; font-size:
                          10pt;" class="">
                          <div id="from" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span
                              class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
                              href="mailto:info@sun24.solar" class=""
                              moz-do-not-send="true">info@sun24.solar</a></div>
                          <div id="sent" class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span
                              class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>October
                            27, 2019 9:01 AM</div>
                          <div id="to" class=""><b class="">To:</b><span
                              class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
                              href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                              class="" moz-do-not-send="true">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></div>
                          <div id="reply_to" class=""><b class="">Reply
                              to:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class=""
                              moz-do-not-send="true">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></div>
                          <div id="subject" class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span
                              class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
                            [Stoves] (no subject)</div>
                        </div>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <br class="">
              </div>
              <div name="BB10" dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
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                normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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                contenteditable="false">
                <div class="">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">Here
                      is a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F167i50oweyfe23bRMnDSeJwlu0eM4IgTek6IO2C6JPes%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5adb9b35eb164c863d8e08d75addc36c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637077780832681885&sdata=YpL%2BDV4Jv3JJn7EOBjT5EA3jWIjF3B8CQkFz2NMriU0%3D&reserved=0"
                        class="" moz-do-not-send="true">report from
                        Zambia</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>indicating
                      that the rock bed and second metal grate improve
                      the efficiency of the Zambian mbaula (all-metal)
                      charcoal jiko by 41%.  Cooking time is also
                      greatly reduced.  While these testers have no
                      training, their results are consistent.</div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"><br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">This
                      is such a simple modification that dissemination
                      could be very rapid.  I hope some of you can try
                      this. </div>
                  </div>
                  <br class="">
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 10,
                      2019 at 1:37 PM K McLean <<a
                        href="mailto:info@sun24.solar" class=""
                        moz-do-not-send="true">info@sun24.solar</a>>
                      wrote:<br class="">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px;
                      border-left-style: solid; border-left-color:
                      rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
                      <div dir="ltr" class="">
                        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:
                          small;">
                          <div dir="ltr" class="">
                            <div class="gmail_default">Listmates,</div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default">Has anyone tried
                              this?</div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default">
                              <div class="gmail_default">We seem to have
                                significantly increased the efficiency
                                of charcoal jikos by putting a bed of
                                rocks on the jiko's grate and putting
                                second metal grate on the rock bed.  The
                                charcoal goes on the second metal
                                grate.   2-3 cm rocks work.  It works in
                                all metal jikos and clay jikos that
                                we've tested. </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default">Our testing is
                                early and unscientific, but consistent. 
                                25-50% less fuel used.  Here are three
                                reports.  The Sierra Leone report has
                                good photos at the bottom.</div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"><span
id="gmail-m_7143231675533950200m_4206997578200011798gmail-m_-5379600863218226737gmail-m_-1297279476715938052gmail-m_1825955397064429865gmail-docs-internal-guid-10e1cdb9-7fff-27f8-efcc-c921a0e5cc06"
                                  class="">
                                  <div style="line-height: 1.38;
                                    margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
                                    0pt;" class=""><a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F12MvBKjxq6PCGCcCHAjSYSeVXXvl7jWjD%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5adb9b35eb164c863d8e08d75addc36c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637077780832691902&sdata=MqY7JaMTSg6tod8s%2BlvxR09foMAMqHWo2jqMdgCklfs%3D&reserved=0"
                                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Sierra
 Leone</span></a></div>
                                  <div style="line-height: 1.38;
                                    margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
                                    0pt;" class=""><a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1zQIY49E1vrfjYl7t5V_shvw70d67QirGWUrbW51tDxo&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5adb9b35eb164c863d8e08d75addc36c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637077780832701907&sdata=agj%2F%2BbtHo6x%2FmUbUkLDYsXFkDWtBy89LwA7wrlnlBQo%3D&reserved=0"
                                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Uganda</span></a></div>
                                  <div style="line-height: 1.38;
                                    margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
                                    0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1MPwHCwKEVqJvuybKB5Yj39nr8fbcopBP&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5adb9b35eb164c863d8e08d75addc36c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637077780832711912&sdata=xQLz%2FJ6%2FdVVAD%2FkEfaX3r5phX01diAfAeimEmNph6Mo%3D&reserved=0" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Kenya
 (very few rocks)</a></span></div>
                                  <div style="line-height: 1.38;
                                    margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
                                    0pt;" class="">(The report authors
                                    are untrained and not native English
                                    speakers.  Especially the Kenya
                                    report contains many errors. Please
                                    focus on the consistent final
                                    conclusion that a rock bed and
                                    second metal grate significantly
                                    reduce firewood usage.)</div>
                                </span><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default">This may be a
                                very low cost, very easy way to greatly
                                improved the efficiency of charcoal
                                jikos.  I'd like to hear if there is
                                already a body of work on this.  Here is
                                my rough drawing:</div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class=""><span
                                      id="cid:ii_k1kzflrt1"><20191010_133359.jpg></span><br
                                      class="">
                                  </div>
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                                                          <div class="">Thank
                                                          you,<br
                                                          class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">Kevin</div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"
                                                          class=""><i
                                                          class=""><br
                                                          class="">
                                                          </i></div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"
                                                          class=""><i
                                                          class="">Kevin
                                                          McLean,
                                                          President</i></div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"
                                                          class="">
                                                          <div class=""><i
                                                          class="">Sun24</i></div>
                                                          <div class=""><i
                                                          class=""><a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsun24.solar&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5adb9b35eb164c863d8e08d75addc36c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637077780832721923&sdata=Nsi14Kx03q4Xt4fYf%2FB9uW3JZpWTcQO2B13z5xUOBkM%3D&reserved=0"
                                                          class=""
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">https://sun24.solar</a> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1ZryS7gQ1q3zKLZPM2KcXdtIHbOYQp4PbloPqMvrlZ5Y%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5adb9b35eb164c863d8e08d75addc36c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637077780832731922&sdata=%2BqrwLKvoaPGUOXCbz78k4n%2BF7o5eqUqQVxZtyfVd7eE%3D&reserved=0"
                                                          class=""
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">Sun24
                                                          Cookstoves
                                                          Overview</a><br
                                                          class="">
                                                          </i></div>
                                                          <div class=""><i
                                                          class="">Tampa,
                                                          Florida, USA</i></div>
                                                          <div class=""><i
                                                          class=""><a
                                                          href="tel:+1(813)5053340"
                                                          class=""
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">+1
                                                          (813) 505-3340</a></i></div>
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                                                          class="">
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                                                                     <img
src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=13teZQbnv_6ek6JkEy-4n0yyUVTrl3M2W&revid=0B8zNcWsuiuj3N2RuVFFYL3EvdElxR1lDcm9QQVlaL0F4VnVFPQ"
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                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          width="200"
                                                          height="200"> 
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src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=11k6wcaMcCbykOoLu-Qo4n6Kbdhplk_er&revid=0B8zNcWsuiuj3ejdsRjRXQWU2OW4rVUpwMUx0Q0U0eXgxcStBPQ"
                                                          class=""
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          width="200"
                                                          height="200"></div>
                                                          <div class=""><br
                                                          class="">
                                                          <i class=""><br
                                                          class="">
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                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
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                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br
                style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Stoves
                mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
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                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to
                Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br
                style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a
                  href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class=""
                  moz-do-not-send="true">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br
                style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to
                UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
                page</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
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                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
                  class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br
                style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">for
                more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see
                our web site:</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
                0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a
                  href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" class=""
                  moz-do-not-send="true">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></span><br
                style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
              <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
                0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration:
                none;" class="">
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
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