<div dir="ltr">Ron:<br><br>You asked for thoughts, so I will offer mine. As an economist, I ought to know how money is made. (Raising grants. Administering grants. By publishing papers and holding fourth at conferences, performing "show and tell" before poor women, a form of poverty and climate tourism. Or taking a cut of the CDM or VER markets to ensure that the poor are properly penalized if their biomass is sourced renewably.)<br><br>Stoves don't make money. People make money. That is a likely clue to why charcoal-making stoves don't sell themselves as much as you believe they should; there are too many cooks making sure that the broth is spoiled. <br><br>And people "make money" when they do something financially profitable - earning a return on their investment in the stove, their feedstock, and their labor. <br><br>It may well be that your favorite charcoal-making stoves are not profitable enough in all contexts. Or that non-cooks are busy baking their own cake in the name of the poor. (EPA and Gates Foundation consultants, to be precise.)<br><br>Nikhil<br><br><br><br><br><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Nikhil Desai</font></div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(US +1) 202 568 5831</span><font face="georgia, serif"><br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 12:52 PM Ronal Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div>List: cc Kevin</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I recommend this (non-fee) overview article shown below. The free pdf version is at: <a href="https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.5141191?class=pdf" target="_blank">https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.5141191?class=pdf</a>.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>This is a nice stove-breakdown list - that they mostly cover:</div><div><br></div><div>(a) According to technology used: Traditional and Improved cookstove </div><div>(b) According to draft or air supply: Natural draft and Forced draft </div><div>(c) According to combustion mechanism: Direct combustion and Gasifier </div><div>(d) According to fuel used: wood, Dung cake, charcoal, residue crops, Multi-fuels </div><div>(e) According to material: Mud, Brick, Ceramic, Metal and Hybrid </div><div>(f) According to fuel feeding: Batch feeding or continuous feeding </div><div>(g) According to utility: Domestic size or Community size </div><div>(h) According to chimney used: Cookstove with chimney or cookstove without chimney </div><div>(i) According to portability: Portable or fixed type </div><div>(j) According to pot used: Single pot or multiple pots </div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I would add one more:</div><div>k). According to money flow: Make money or spend money while cooking</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Obviously there should be some stove-user interest in money-making. The only way I am aware of is making charcoal. Others? </div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>So this k) option is already possible as a part of c) Gasifier (meaning only TLUD in this paper). But (unfortunately) not much of k) is now happening as part of c). Nor is marketing of char discussed in this article.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>But there are many ways to make charcoal and some of the other ways are potentially applicable to cooking tasks. I’m working on a message on these other non-TLUD ways - and would welcome on-list or off-list dialog if anyone else is doing that.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>If we discuss k) seriously, it seems that k) can involve EVERY one of the breakdowns a) through j). I am concentrating now on modifications of both the “Traditional” and “improved" parts of a). This category can also expand what is covered in a) through j). For instance, b) can include “no draft”. e) may have other options than those shown. f) might have “and” as well as “or”.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>This paper is a nice summary of much past work, but is essentially silent on k) - the making of char/money while cooking. No discussion of how char influences efficiency computation.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Thoughts?</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">Google Scholar Alerts <<a href="mailto:scholaralerts-noreply@google.com" target="_blank">scholaralerts-noreply@google.com</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>"The effects of fuel type and stove design on ..." - new citations</b><br></span></div><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">December 24, 2019 at 6:47:33 AM MST<br></span></div><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br></span></div><br><div><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:16px;color:rgb(34,34,34);width:556px;max-width:600px"><h3 style="font-weight:normal;margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:20px"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.5141191&hl=en&sa=X&d=17213963389128872961&scisig=AAGBfm0-waMeF4PChI8-x6xowjhFKrv5zg&nossl=1&oi=scholaralrt" style="text-decoration:none;font-size:17px;color:rgb(26,13,171)" target="_blank">Evolution of high performance and low emission biomass cookstoves-an overview</a></h3><div style="color:rgb(0,102,33)">C Samal, PC Mishra, S Mukherjee, D Das - AIP Conference Proceedings, 2019</div><div>As a huge rural population worldwide is depending on open-fired or traditional<span> </span><br>cookstoves to meet daily domestic energy needs, improvement of thermal efficiency<span> </span><br>and reduction of harmful emissions are essential. Accordingly, many researchers are …</div><div style="width:auto"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding-right:4px"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar_share?hl=en&oi=scholaralrt&ss=tw&url=https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.5141191&rt=Evolution+of+high+performance+and+low+emission+biomass+cookstoves-an+overview&scisig=AAGBfm2ygNIluhutGJVItASU2b5RP-mSqA" style="text-decoration:none;display:inline-block;padding:4px 8px 4px 0px" target="_blank"><img alt="Twitter" src="http://scholar.google.com/intl/en/scholar/images/1x/tw-32.png" border="0" height="16" width="16" style="vertical-align: top;"></a></td><td style="padding-right:4px"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar_share?hl=en&oi=scholaralrt&ss=fb&url=https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.5141191&rt=Evolution+of+high+performance+and+low+emission+biomass+cookstoves-an+overview&scisig=AAGBfm2ygNIluhutGJVItASU2b5RP-mSqA" style="text-decoration:none;display:inline-block;padding:4px 8px" target="_blank"><img alt="Facebook" src="http://scholar.google.com/intl/en/scholar/images/1x/fb-32.png" border="0" height="16" width="16" style="vertical-align: top;"></a></td></tr></tbody></table></div><br><p><b>"The effects of fuel type and stove design on emissions and efficiency of natural-draft semi-gasifier biomass cookstoves" - new citations</b></p><div style="line-height:16px;border-top:1px solid rgb(189,189,189)"> </div><div><div><a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar_alerts?view_op=cancel_alert_options&email_for_op=rongretlarson%40comcast.net&alert_id=YUsCvyJf17UJ&hl=en" style="display:inline-block;text-decoration:none;font-family:arial,sans-serif;text-transform:uppercase;font-size:13px;line-height:21px;padding:3px 0px;color:rgb(26,13,171);border-top:1px solid transparent;border-bottom:1px solid transparent;border-radius:3px" target="_blank"><span>CANCEL ALERT</span></a></div></div><p style="margin:8px 0px 24px;color:rgb(102,102,102)">This alert is sent by Google Scholar. Google Scholar is a service by Google.</p></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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