<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Crispin, <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Three points to your mail: <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><ol class="MailOutline"><li class="">I don’t agree with you that the Mimi Moto is the same product as the Philipps stove. I think you mix that up with the ACE stove produced by African Clean Energy in Lesotho who used to produce the Philipps stove. Mimi Moto is a completely different product among other things addressing many of the glitches users observed with the Philipps. Please check it out <a href="https://mimimoto.nl/" class="">https://mimimoto.nl/</a></li><li class="">I totally agree with you on the need to specify ‚which category of performance Tier‘ is meant. If I didn’t miss anything, there is no agreement on a single tier rating of stoves??? To my understanding there is no overall agreed upon tier rating for stoves, so there is no ‚Tier 4 stove‘, there could only be ‚Tier 4 4 4 4 etc.’ stoves depending on the performance categories. We should remind ourselves not to fall into the trap and reiterate the wrong jargon. Otherwise we should not be surprised to get ‚Worldbank‘ and the likes asking for things that don#t exist or are not agreed upon like the absurdities of ‚single tier stoves‘. We already predicted back in 2012 during IWA that things might got oversimplified and they did! No idea how to stop that other than repeating the same message over and over again to be specific on individual ratings of performance categories of stoves.</li><li class="">To my experience the rating of TLUDs/biochar making stoves is even more dependent on the fuel quality (type of material, moisture, particle size and particle size distribution, etc.) and the user behaviour than a wood or charcoal stove. Unless you use standardised pellets (adhering to some of the pellet norms) instead of found fuels you get a different performance every time you run a stove as the fuel is so unpredictable, thus the unpredictable performance. I am not aware that we have proof that a lab test predicts the field performance of gasifier stoves. Maybe something to discuss at ETHOS 2020?</li></ol></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best regards</div><div class="">Christa</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
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<div><br class=""><div class="">Am 15.01.2020 um 05:48 schrieb Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: initial;" class=""><div id="x_response_container_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="font-family: initial; font-size: initial; outline: none;" class=""><div name="x_BB10" id="x_BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">Dear Ron</div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">The Mimi Moto stove used in the Inyenyeri project in Rwanda is essentially the same product as the Phillips Stove.</div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">There was a licensed manufacturer of the Phillips stove in Maseru, Lesotho who broke away at someone and produced two other own products with a smaller number of ceramic plates in the combustion chamber.</div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">The Peso Pe stove can be operated with a wide variety of fuels so the Tier achieved will vary with the suitability of the fuel to the stove, it's fueling cycle and the duration of the cooking session. </div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">At least two of the stoves from Dr Nurhuda can achieve Tier 4 performance as well as other products low included in the Indonesian Stove Pilot. Nurhuda's TLUD gasifiers definitely make char. </div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">If one wanted to produce charcoal fuel, one need look no further than Nurhuda's candle nut shell burning gasifier. The char product is excellent as fuel without a high yield as a % of dry fuel mass. Plus, there are a lot of candle nut shells in Indonesia. </div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">As mentioned before, a Vesto can work as a char maker and might achieve Tier 4 in all categories, it will depend on the operator I suppose. </div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">Tom, when you ask for Tier 4 performance do you mean for PM2.5 or for all categories? And do you mean as set forth as the default targets in ISO 19867-3? That document permits the creation of various sets of target performance levels as and when one wishes. The only study I saw so far that tried to establish the actual performance and resulting exposure of the cooks to PM was by Omar Master et al. They showed that the Tier targets were too stringent by a factor 6 to 10. I.E. the emission rate was far too low for the actual exposure v.s. the exposure estimated by the WHO's single box model. </div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">These days, in the presence of the ISO standards, when one says "Tier 4" one has to qualify it by saying whose Tier 4, and what the stove-fuel-burn sequence was at the time. These stove can score on three different tiers depending on those variables. </div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">Regards </div><div name="x_BB10" id="x_response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width: 858px;" class="">Crispin </div></div><div id="x__original_msg_header_BBPPID" dir="auto" class=""><table width="100%" style="border-spacing: 0px; display: table; outline: none;" class=""><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td colspan="2" style="font-size: initial; text-align: initial;" class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in; font-family: Tahoma, "BB Alpha Sans", "Slate Pro"; font-size: 10pt;" class=""><div id="x_from" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a></div><div id="x_sent" class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>January 14, 2020 8:34 PM</div><div id="x_to" class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:trmilesjr@gmail.com" class="">trmilesjr@gmail.com</a></div><div id="x_reply_to" class=""><b class="">Reply to:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></div><div id="x_cc" class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></div><div id="x_subject" class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Tier 4 Biochar Stoves</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br class=""></div></div><font size="2" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><div class="PlainText">Tom and list<br class=""><br class=""> I am pretty sure that both the Phillips and Peko Pe are Tier 4 and CAN (but don’t normally) make char. I’ll bet both would be interested in replying. Could be others.<br class=""><br class="">Ron<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">> On Jan 14, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Tom Miles <<a href="mailto:trmilesjr@gmail.com" class="">trmilesjr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> Are there any tier 4 stoves that make biochar? World Banks is requiring Tier 4 stoves for a project. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> Thanks<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> Tom<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> _______________________________________________<br class="">> Stoves mailing list<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C57640d0eac7c47a579bc08d7995b0a92%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637146488604340771&sdata=akGhegW7%2FVeOmYqSrSU4Mp1C9NTEpE3fxnzeXaz%2FVnM%3D&reserved=0" class="">https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C57640d0eac7c47a579bc08d7995b0a92%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637146488604340771&sdata=akGhegW7%2FVeOmYqSrSU4Mp1C9NTEpE3fxnzeXaz%2FVnM%3D&reserved=0</a><br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C57640d0eac7c47a579bc08d7995b0a92%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637146488604340771&sdata=YzDIa1cLY5hj6nMHQg8xbVnTDNnDu2DJB6v%2BlmJJquU%3D&reserved=0" class="">https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C57640d0eac7c47a579bc08d7995b0a92%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637146488604340771&sdata=YzDIa1cLY5hj6nMHQg8xbVnTDNnDu2DJB6v%2BlmJJquU%3D&reserved=0</a><br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""><a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C57640d0eac7c47a579bc08d7995b0a92%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637146488604340771&sdata=akGhegW7%2FVeOmYqSrSU4Mp1C9NTEpE3fxnzeXaz%2FVnM%3D&reserved=0" class="">https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C57640d0eac7c47a579bc08d7995b0a92%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637146488604340771&sdata=akGhegW7%2FVeOmYqSrSU4Mp1C9NTEpE3fxnzeXaz%2FVnM%3D&reserved=0</a><br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class=""><a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C57640d0eac7c47a579bc08d7995b0a92%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637146488604340771&sdata=YzDIa1cLY5hj6nMHQg8xbVnTDNnDu2DJB6v%2BlmJJquU%3D&reserved=0" class="">https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C57640d0eac7c47a579bc08d7995b0a92%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637146488604340771&sdata=YzDIa1cLY5hj6nMHQg8xbVnTDNnDu2DJB6v%2BlmJJquU%3D&reserved=0</a><br class=""><br class=""></div></span></font><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); 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