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<p class="MsoNormal">The Fabstove by Ekasi Energy (Dave Lello in South Africa) is just coming on the market in 2020. I will have one to show at ETHOS 12 days from now. Should be Tier 4 (TLUD-FA-pellet fuel) but is not tested yet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Charcoal is produced in force-air TLUDs if the users are aware and are willing to save the char.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Natural draft TLUDs can be Tier 4 (example is Nurhuda’s / Prime’s), but most are not officially tested because there is no funding for that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Stoves <stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ronal Larson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 15, 2020 9:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>; Stoves <stoves@foodandfuel.info><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Tier 4 Biochar Stoves<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Christa and stoves:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span>1. The WorldBank should start on this subject with your wonderful book <a href="http://www.foodandfuel.info/foodandfuel/Archive_files/Micro_Gasification_2.0_Cooking_with_gas_from_dry_biomass.pdf">http://www.foodandfuel.info/foodandfuel/Archive_files/Micro_Gasification_2.0_Cooking_with_gas_from_dry_biomass.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span>2. Unfortunately the Mimi Moto came along after the 2013 of the above.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span>3. Also the Mimi Moto does not normally produce char - but presumably would rank even higher if it was modified to stop before the char it first produces is consumed. (This is my prejudiced
belief - anyone know if stoves like the Mimi Moto would show up “Tier better" as char-producers?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span>4. Can you address (to help the commendable World Bank emphasis on both cooking AND biochar) how to get out to the many companies producing char-making stoves the importance also getting
Tier rankings. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span> Mimi Moto shows a lot on their tier rankings (and subtler) at: <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://www.mimimoto.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Mimi_Moto_IWA-Tiers-of-Performance-WBT-4.2.3-Report-REV.A.pdf">https://www.mimimoto.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Mimi_Moto_IWA-Tiers-of-Performance-WBT-4.2.3-Report-REV.A.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span>It seems highly likely that they would do well on safety - the only one missing. Any idea why that is not shown? Not measured?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span>I follow Paul Olivier’s work (in your 2013 book) - but think he hasn’t sought Tier rankings. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span>Same for Nat Mulcahy and World Stove (in your earlier book, but not the above). And there are probably many more that the World Bank should be considering<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span>Again - thanks for all you have done on this topic.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ron<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 15, 2020, at 2:22 AM, Christa Roth (bioenergylist) <<a href="mailto:stoves@foodandfuel.info">stoves@foodandfuel.info</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Three points to your mail: <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
I don’t agree with you that the Mimi Moto is the same product as the Philipps stove. I think you mix that up with the ACE stove produced by African Clean Energy in Lesotho who used to produce the Philipps stove. Mimi Moto is a completely different product
among other things addressing many of the glitches users observed with the Philipps. Please check it out
<a href="https://mimimoto.nl/">https://mimimoto.nl/</a><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
I totally agree with you on the need to specify ‚which category of performance Tier‘ is meant. If I didn’t miss anything, there is no agreement on a single tier rating of stoves??? To my understanding there is no overall agreed upon tier rating for stoves,
so there is no ‚Tier 4 stove‘, there could only be ‚Tier 4 4 4 4 etc.’ stoves depending on the performance categories. We should remind ourselves not to fall into the trap and reiterate the wrong jargon. Otherwise we should not be surprised to get ‚Worldbank‘
and the likes asking for things that don#t exist or are not agreed upon like the absurdities of ‚single tier stoves‘. We already predicted back in 2012 during IWA that things might got oversimplified and they did! No idea how to stop that other than repeating
the same message over and over again to be specific on individual ratings of performance categories of stoves.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
To my experience the rating of TLUDs/biochar making stoves is even more dependent on the fuel quality (type of material, moisture, particle size and particle size distribution, etc.) and the user behaviour than a wood or charcoal stove. Unless you use standardised
pellets (adhering to some of the pellet norms) instead of found fuels you get a different performance every time you run a stove as the fuel is so unpredictable, thus the unpredictable performance. I am not aware that we have proof that a lab test predicts
the field performance of gasifier stoves. Maybe something to discuss at ETHOS 2020?<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Christa<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Stoves<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:stoves@foodandfuel.info">stoves@foodandfuel.info</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 15.01.2020 um 05:48 schrieb Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">Dear Ron</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">The Mimi Moto stove used in the Inyenyeri project in Rwanda is essentially the same product as the Phillips Stove.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">There was a licensed manufacturer of the Phillips stove in Maseru, Lesotho who broke away at someone and produced two other own products with
a smaller number of ceramic plates in the combustion chamber.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">The Peso Pe stove can be operated with a wide variety of fuels so the Tier achieved will vary with the suitability of the fuel to the stove,
it's fueling cycle and the duration of the cooking session. </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">At least two of the stoves from Dr Nurhuda can achieve Tier 4 performance as well as other products low included in the Indonesian Stove Pilot.
Nurhuda's TLUD gasifiers definitely make char. </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">If one wanted to produce charcoal fuel, one need look no further than Nurhuda's candle nut shell burning gasifier. The char product is excellent
as fuel without a high yield as a % of dry fuel mass. Plus, there are a lot of candle nut shells in Indonesia. </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">As mentioned before, a Vesto can work as a char maker and might achieve Tier 4 in all categories, it will depend on the operator I suppose. </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">Tom, when you ask for Tier 4 performance do you mean for PM2.5 or for all categories? And do you mean as set forth as the default targets in
ISO 19867-3? That document permits the creation of various sets of target performance levels as and when one wishes. The only study I saw so far that tried to establish the actual performance and resulting exposure of the cooks to PM was by Omar Master et
al. They showed that the Tier targets were too stringent by a factor 6 to 10. I.E. the emission rate was far too low for the actual exposure v.s. the exposure estimated by the WHO's single box model. </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">These days, in the presence of the ISO standards, when one says "Tier 4" one has to qualify it by saying whose Tier 4, and what the stove-fuel-burn
sequence was at the time. These stove can score on three different tiers depending on those variables. </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">Regards </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif;color:black">Crispin </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"initial",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Sent:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">January
14, 2020 8:34 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">To:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:trmilesjr@gmail.com">trmilesjr@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Reply to:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Cc:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Subject:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Re:
[Stoves] Tier 4 Biochar Stoves<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Tom and list<br>
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I am pretty sure that both the Phillips and Peko Pe are Tier 4 and CAN (but don’t normally) make char. I’ll bet both would be interested in replying. Could be others.<br>
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Ron<br>
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> On Jan 14, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Tom Miles <<a href="mailto:trmilesjr@gmail.com">trmilesjr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> Are there any tier 4 stoves that make biochar? World Banks is requiring Tier 4 stoves for a project. <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> Thanks<br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> Tom<br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
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