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<p>Hello all,</p>
<p> FYI, I have also been involved in these Clean Cookstove
conversations for many years -- through the "Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves", which is a <i>global</i> conversation.</p>
<p> I agree with Peter: "<span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">imposition
of so-called <i>better technology</i> comes across as a <u>colonization</u>
of long-standing and well-adapted cooking practices</span>".</p>
<p> <i>Cultural context</i> matters -- a lot!</p>
<p> Any "interventions" should only be done if it is <u><i>REQUESTED
by the community itself</i></u>... otherwise attempts at
"imposing" solutions will very likely be simply abandoned after a
very short period of time ~ especially if the (imposed)
"Solution(s)" end up being more costly or complex than the
existing methods.</p>
<p> The most likely "intervention" method would simply be to go to
these communities, show them various "alternative" ways of cooking
(such as by pelleting and/or using certain types of "waste" that
may be readily available in those communities -- such as <i>rice
husks</i> in Vietnam -- and which can be used in alternative
clean cookstoves that behave very much like modern [gas]
cookstoves, and then simply demonstrate and teach them how to use
the new stoves.</p>
<p> Beyond that you can't "force" them to change anything...
especially if their diets include cooked foods that get much of
their flavour from smoke and charcoal etc.</p>
<p> It would be like asking a guy who loves <b>Smoked Meat</b> to
"stop using wood"!<br>
</p>
<p><img
src="https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/IGOlC5qKy3Mxb7FTh6FnPg/o.jpg"
alt="Lang Reverse Flow Wood Smoker - Yelp" width="312"
height="233"><img
src="https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.nGfCi_vBARvTgMGjLfdi9gHaDp&pid=Api"></p>
<p>Regards,<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
System Leader and Sector Expert for the "Climate Smart" Platform
& Project Development Director
Energime University
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://energimeuniversity.org/">http://energimeuniversity.org/</a>
A member of The Energime Family of Companies
"Education, training, knowledge and empowerment for responsible environmental management and resource sustainability."
Not-for-profit Tax Exempt Status: 501(3C) DLN 17053330310044
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lloydhelferty@energime.com">lloydhelferty@energime.com</a>
------------------------------------------
MeetMe: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://doodle.com/lhelferty">https://doodle.com/lhelferty</a>
------------------------------------------
48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
905-707-8754
Skype: lloyd.helferty
--
Executive Director
Resilient World Institute (RWI)
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rwinstitute.ca/">http://rwinstitute.ca/</a>
5 Shields Court, Suite 108
Markham, Ontario, L3R 0G3
cell: 647-886-8754
--
Core Group team member, Drawdown Toronto, Richmond Hill and
Co-Founder, Drawdown Markham
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/DDMarkham/">https://www.facebook.com/groups/DDMarkham/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.meetup.com/Drawdown-Markham/">https://www.meetup.com/Drawdown-Markham/</a>
--
Co-Founder & Administrator, WE-Energime-Global Cooperation Day Turtle Island
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/EGCDTI/">https://www.facebook.com/groups/EGCDTI/</a>
--
Goodwill Ambassador, Canada, Francophone, and Commonwealth of Nations Communities
FPYF Ad Hoc Youth4SDGs-Tourism4SDGs International Advisory Board of Goodwill Ambassadors
Glocalizing the Sustainable Development Goals (GSDGs)
--
Chair, Community Sustainability (CoSWoG), A working group of Science for Peace
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.linkedin.com/groups/8413199">https://www.linkedin.com/groups/8413199</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/coswog">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/coswog</a>
--
Co-founder, CSF Consulting Group
and Science for Peace (SfP) CoSWoG Climate Smart Food sub-Working Group (CSFWG)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/groups/climatesmartfood/">www.facebook.com/groups/climatesmartfood/</a>
--
Founder, "Future Farming" group
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Future-Farming-4815612">http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Future-Farming-4815612</a>
--
President, Co-founder, Biochar-Ontario
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario">http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3329950">https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3329950</a>
A member of the Canadian Biocarbon Network (CBN)
--
Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475</a>
--
Advisory Committee Member, International Biochar Initiative (IBI)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.biochar-international.org">www.biochar-international.org</a>
--
Sustainable Biochar Expert, Passive Remediation Systems Ltd. (PRS)
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.prsi.ca/leadership-team/">http://www.prsi.ca/leadership-team/</a>
--
Steering Committee coordinator, Canadian Renewable Carbon Network (CRCN)
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://groups.google.com/d/forum/canadian-biochar-initiative">https://groups.google.com/d/forum/canadian-biochar-initiative</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717</a>
--
Former Promotions Manager, Climate Smart Agriculture Youth Network (CSAYN)
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=6756248">https://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=6756248</a>
"The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Willy Brandt</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-01-12 3:20 PM, David Burman
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:eac61d44-ed50-83ff-48b2-53f9fb3bd475@web.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>along those lines, when the Cuban government supplied electric
hotplates to all households (along with compact fluorescent
lightbulbs) they all collapsed. <br>
</p>
<p>Why? because they were made in China and designed for use with
woks and not the pressure cookers used by Cubans. It became a
national joke :)<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/12/2020 1:30 PM, Jones, Peter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:YT1PR01MB390027CD2490E772822C6EAFF93A0@YT1PR01MB3900.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Clean
cookstoves are a fascinating area of discussion in
innovation studies. With an ethnographic study of actual
human practices, they quickly show us the complexity in
“making decisions for other cultures.” <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We
have to step lightly in these issues because the <font
color="#990000"><b>imposition of so-called better
technology comes across as a colonization of
long-standing and well-adapted cooking practices</b></font>.
We have to be careful when “solving problems for other
cultures.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">My
grad student William Georg conducted a nearly 3-month
innovation adoption study in Kampala, Uganda on clean
cookstove adoption. <a
href="http://openresearch.ocadu.ca/id/eprint/351/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://openresearch.ocadu.ca/id/eprint/351/</a>
We presented this work at the EPIC Ethnography conference
in 2016. Ut is consistent with other anthropological
findings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Simply
put, for many indigenous and subsistence cultures, the use
of charcoal is well-adapted to their preferred and
affordable cooking and eating practices and preferences.
Indigenous cultures and slum-dwellers are not likely
candidates to change diet for the environment. They cook
indoors with charcoal and risk pulmonary disease for their
whole families. But cookstoves have been a failure in many
– not all – locations because of cultural practice, AND
simple constraints – such as, many subsistence diets, they
cook beans or other simmering foods that use up liquid
fuels quickly. These stoves might double the cost of
cooking beans. So even when these stoves are given away,
they often get used just for tea or quick cooking.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So
what to do? First of all, we should focus on our own
culture first and foremost. Second, pay attention to human
sciences. It can become complex and wasteful trying to
intervene where we don’t understand practices. Third, when
designing solutions – when requested – for these
practices, we really must balance cost, end use, and the
human cultural practices that we have no right as
westerners to change. We have to work with people in their
contexts, not ours.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">All
the best, Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>PETER
JONES, PH.D.<br>
</b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333">ASSOCIATE
PROFESSOR<br>
FACULTY OF DESIGN</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">T </span></b><a
href="tel:416%20799%208799" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">416
799 8799</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
@redesign</span><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">E</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span><a
href="mailto:pjones@ocadu.ca" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">pjones@ocadu.ca</span></a><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><a
href="http://designdialogues.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#FF6600">Design
Dialogues </span></b></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span><br>
<a href="http://slab.ocadu.ca/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#FF6600">Strategic
Innovation Lab</span></b></a><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#FF6600"><br>
</span></b><a href="https://systemic-design.net/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#FF6600">Systemic Design
Association (RSD) </span></b></a><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#FF6600"><br>
</span></b><b><br>
OCAD UNIVERSITY<br>
</b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Strategic Foresight
& Innovation</span></b><b><br>
</b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333">205
Richmond St. West, Suite 410<br>
Toronto, Canada M5V 1V3</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:main@drawdown-toronto.groups.io"
moz-do-not-send="true">main@drawdown-toronto.groups.io</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:main@drawdown-toronto.groups.io"
moz-do-not-send="true"><main@drawdown-toronto.groups.io></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lyn Adamson via Groups.Io<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have heard of a group working on a
clean cook stove project. I think for Guatemala. Located
in Lanark County. I have reached out to get more info. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Lyn<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 11, 2020, at 10:33 PM, David Burman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We have the mailchimp list. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Would need more info before
putting it out there. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Talk Wednesday <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">D<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Get <a
href="http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=15726"
moz-do-not-send="true">BlueMail for Android</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan. 10, 2020, at 2:58 p.m.,
"Jonathan Love via Groups.Io" <<a
href="mailto:jonlove=%3ca" moz-do-not-send="true">mac.com</a>@groups.io
target=_blank>jonlove=<a href="http://mac.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mac.com</a>@groups.io>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">If we had some kind of directory
I would say to put it there. But I don’t think
there’s much else we should do. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jon <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 8, 2020, at 7:11
PM, Natalie Zend wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Dear
core team, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Any
thoughts on how we can
support/collaborate with Tim on this? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Hugs
to all, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Natalie
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);font-variant-caps:
normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="airmailon"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">On
January 4, 2020 at 1:48:56 PM, Tim
Marskell wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans:
auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;word-spacing:0px">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Hi
Natalie, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Nice
to e-meet you. As Matt
mentioned, I am in the idea
phase of a fundraiser
surrounding cookstoves that was
inspired by reading Drawdown. We
were thinking of combining it
with some climate pledge items
that Matt has been working on. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">If
you'd like to hear more I'd be
happy to chat. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Thanks,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Tim
Marskell <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="ydp608bec07yahoo_quoted_9149233906">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">On
Saturday, January 4, 2020,
08:55:17 a.m. EST, Matthew L-P
wrote: <o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div id="ydp608bec07yiv7637931189">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Hi
Natalie, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">I
just met with Tim
yesterday and said I
would e-introduce you.
He has been inspired by
the Drawdown book and is
planning a fundraiser in
restaurants for clean
cooktop stoves for the
developing world. He
was thinking of using
the drawdown logo in his
promotions and maybe
collaborating with the
Toronto group and I said
I would connect you.
Are you the best person
to talk to about that?
Should he come to a
meeting? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Anyway,
I will let the two of
you take it from here. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Keep
fighting the good fight,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Matt
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:11.25pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A">_________________________
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:11.25pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><a
href="http://www.climatepledgecollective.org/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="text-decoration:none"><img style="width:1.0in;height:.7812in"
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1dJQ_J4zppjagdP0YZhIwNpzOtG02cznP&revid=0B7hzr4QuaUxkQmtzMFNpekVrNUROancydjFlNzhQaVpkbmU0PQ"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="96" height="75" border="0"></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:11.25pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><a
href="http://www.climatepledgecollective.org/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.climatepledgecollective.org</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:11.25pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:11.25pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><a
href="https://climatepledgecollective.us20.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=d38769c69ed6df127711cce26&id=4e31ff4bed"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">SUBSCRIBE</a> <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>to
our
e-newsletter.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Burman DDS PhD
University of Toronto
416-705-6516</pre>
<br>
</blockquote>
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