<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">See comment below.<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:42 AM Lloyd Helferty <<a href="mailto:lhelferty@gmail.com">lhelferty@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Thanks, Paul.</p>
<p> You have just reinforced my point that the best "intervention"
is simply to show people various "alternative" ways of cooking
(including imparting the "smoky flavours" that they love) ... and
then simply demonstrating and teaching them how to use the new
stoves (to achieve what they want, including getting the <i>flavours</i>
they want).</p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">I suggest that special pellets be used when grilling meat.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">The wood used to make the pellets should impart flavor (for example, mesquite).<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<p> Of course the "alternative solutions" [i.e. the "clean"
cookstoves] need to be as easy to use (or easier) </p></div></blockquote><div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">I found an easy way to light pellets within the reactor.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">A small layer of pine shavings are placed above the pellets.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Then a stainless steel wire mesh disk is placed above the pine shavings.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">A small gas torch is directed down onto the wire mesh.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">When the disk turns red hot and emits radiant heat onto the pine shavings, the shavings light within a matter of seconds.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">The shavings then light the pellets.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">In this way, no smoke is created.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">When the burner with tungsten disk is placed on top of the reactor, the same gas torch is directed down onto the tungsten disk.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">The tungsten gets red hot and lights the syngas.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">No matches, paper or cardboard have to be used to light pellets or syngas.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Both the stainless steel wire mesh and the tungsten disk prevent the escape of particulate matter.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">They also burn up oily compounds.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div><div><img src="cid:ii_k5j6jchb1" alt="image.jpeg" width="519" height="534"><br><br></div> </div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>and, ideally, as
inexpensive as the "traditional" cooking methods [and/or where
they can be shown that there are some "savings" on fuel <u>cost</u>
</p></div></blockquote><div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">There is no fuel cost.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Instead there is a fuel profit, since the biochar produced has a higher value than the biomass from which it is derived.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">There is an endless supply of agricultural and forestry debris that can be used to make pellets.<br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">We hope to sell the 150-250 gasifier, with a run time on pellets of 1.25 hours, for about $50 USD.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">We use 304 stainless steel in making all parts of the gasifier.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Thanks.</div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Paul<br></div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>~ or where the new stove uses easily <i>accessible</i> 'fuels']
... or, if they can be shown ways of making some (possibly even
small) <u>additional income</u> from using the new stoves.<br>
</p>
<p>Regards,<br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
System Leader and Sector Expert for the "Climate Smart" Platform
& Project Development Director
Energime University
<a href="http://energimeuniversity.org/" target="_blank">http://energimeuniversity.org/</a>
A member of The Energime Family of Companies
"Education, training, knowledge and empowerment for responsible environmental management and resource sustainability."
Not-for-profit Tax Exempt Status: 501(3C) DLN 17053330310044
<a href="mailto:lloydhelferty@energime.com" target="_blank">lloydhelferty@energime.com</a>
------------------------------------------
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--
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and Science for Peace (SfP) CoSWoG Climate Smart Food sub-Working Group (CSFWG)
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"The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Willy Brandt</pre>
<div>On 2020-01-17 9:42 PM, Paul Olivier
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">Lloyd,</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">Barbecue
fumes are highly toxic.</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">There are
other ways to impart wood flavor to meat.</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">After sous
vide cooking with gasifier heat, meat can be grilled using
gasifier heat.</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">A grill pan
can be used.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">
<div><img src="cid:16fb72beadba74a111b1" alt="image.jpeg" width="534" height="300"></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks.</div>
<div>Paul<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 3:48
AM Lloyd Helferty wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hello all,</p>
<p> FYI, I have also been involved in these Clean Cookstove
conversations for many years -- through the "Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves", which is a <i>global</i>
conversation.</p>
<p> I agree with Peter: "<span>imposition of so-called <i>better
technology</i> comes across as a <u>colonization</u>
of long-standing and well-adapted cooking practices</span>".</p>
<p> <i>Cultural context</i> matters -- a lot!</p>
<p> Any "interventions" should only be done if it is <u><i>REQUESTED
by the community itself</i></u>... otherwise attempts
at "imposing" solutions will very likely be simply
abandoned after a very short period of time ~ especially
if the (imposed) "Solution(s)" end up being more costly or
complex than the existing methods.</p>
<p> The most likely "intervention" method would simply be to
go to these communities, show them various "alternative"
ways of cooking (such as by pelleting and/or using certain
types of "waste" that may be readily available in those
communities -- such as <i>rice husks</i> in Vietnam --
and which can be used in alternative clean cookstoves that
behave very much like modern [gas] cookstoves, and then
simply demonstrate and teach them how to use the new
stoves.</p>
<p> Beyond that you can't "force" them to change anything...
especially if their diets include cooked foods that get
much of their flavour from smoke and charcoal etc.</p>
<p> It would be like asking a guy who loves <b>Smoked Meat</b>
to "stop using wood"!<br>
</p>
<p><img src="https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/IGOlC5qKy3Mxb7FTh6FnPg/o.jpg" alt="Lang Reverse Flow Wood Smoker - Yelp" width="312" height="233"><img src="https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.nGfCi_vBARvTgMGjLfdi9gHaDp&pid=Api"></p>
<p>Regards,<br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">Lloyd Helferty</pre>
<div>On 2020-01-12 3:20 PM, David Burman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>along those lines, when the Cuban government supplied
electric hotplates to all households (along with compact
fluorescent lightbulbs) they all collapsed. <br>
</p>
<p>Why? because they were made in China and designed for
use with woks and not the pressure cookers used by
Cubans. It became a national joke :)<br>
</p>
<div>On 1/12/2020 1:30 PM, Jones, Peter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Clean cookstoves are a
fascinating area of discussion in innovation
studies. With an ethnographic study of actual
human practices, they quickly show us the
complexity in “making decisions for other
cultures.” </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>We have to step lightly in
these issues because the <font color="#990000"><b>imposition
of so-called better technology comes across as
a colonization of long-standing and
well-adapted cooking practices</b></font>. We
have to be careful when “solving problems for
other cultures.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> My grad student William
Georg conducted a nearly 3-month innovation
adoption study in Kampala, Uganda on clean
cookstove adoption. <a href="http://openresearch.ocadu.ca/id/eprint/351/" target="_blank">http://openresearch.ocadu.ca/id/eprint/351/</a>
We presented this work at the EPIC Ethnography
conference in 2016. Ut is consistent with other
anthropological findings.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> Simply put, for many
indigenous and subsistence cultures, the use of
charcoal is well-adapted to their preferred and
affordable cooking and eating practices and
preferences. Indigenous cultures and
slum-dwellers are not likely candidates to change
diet for the environment. They cook indoors with
charcoal and risk pulmonary disease for their
whole families. But cookstoves have been a failure
in many – not all – locations because of cultural
practice, AND simple constraints – such as, many
subsistence diets, they cook beans or other
simmering foods that use up liquid fuels quickly.
These stoves might double the cost of cooking
beans. So even when these stoves are given away,
they often get used just for tea or quick cooking.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> So what to do? First of
all, we should focus on our own culture first and
foremost. Second, pay attention to human sciences.
It can become complex and wasteful trying to
intervene where we don’t understand practices.
Third, when designing solutions – when requested –
for these practices, we really must balance cost,
end use, and the human cultural practices that we
have no right as westerners to change. We have to
work with people in their contexts, not ours.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> All the best, Peter</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <b>PETER JONES, PH.D.<br>
</b><span style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(51,51,51)">ASSOCIATE
PROFESSOR<br>
FACULTY OF DESIGN</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">T
</span></b><a href="tel:416%20799%208799" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">416 799 8799</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt"> @redesign</span><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:10pt">E</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><a href="mailto:pjones@ocadu.ca" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">pjones@ocadu.ca</span></a><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><a href="http://designdialogues.com/" target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(255,102,0)">Design
Dialogues </span></b></a><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><br>
<a href="http://slab.ocadu.ca/" target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(255,102,0)">Strategic
Innovation Lab</span></b></a><b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(255,102,0)"><br>
</span></b><a href="https://systemic-design.net/" target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(255,102,0)">Systemic
Design Association (RSD) </span></b></a><b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(255,102,0)"><br>
</span></b><b><br>
OCAD UNIVERSITY<br>
</b><b><span style="font-size:10pt">Strategic
Foresight & Innovation</span></b><b><br>
</b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(51,51,51)">205
Richmond St. West, Suite 410<br>
Toronto, Canada M5V 1V3</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <br>
</span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:main@drawdown-toronto.groups.io" target="_blank">main@drawdown-toronto.groups.io</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lyn Adamson via Groups.Io<br>
<br>
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I have heard of a group working
on a clean cook stove project. I think for
Guatemala. Located in Lanark County. I have reached
out to get more info. </p>
<div> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"> Lyn</p>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
On Jan 11, 2020, at 10:33 PM, David Burman wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We have the mailchimp list.
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Would need more info
before putting it out there. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Talk Wednesday </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">D</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Get <a href="http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=15726" target="_blank">BlueMail
for Android</a> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan. 10, 2020, at 2:58
p.m., "Jonathan Love via Groups.Io" wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">If we had some kind of
directory I would say to put it there. But I
don’t think there’s much else we should do.
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jon</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<Snip><br>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>27/2bis Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br>
<br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://epwt.vn/en/home/" target="_blank">http://epwt.vn/en/home/</a></span><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>